black vs. grey

[ilovemysnake]

honestly, how can you tell the difference between a grey rat snake and a black rat snake?
i looked up grey rat snake hatchling, and turbo looks exactly like it. but he also looks exactly like a black. they look the same. at least in my opinion..

go on the site, it the album turbo, there's his pictures.
what do you guys think?

https://www.facebook.com/TurboAndTurbine

[StudentoReptile]

They are subspecies of the same species. Black rat is Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus and Grey rat is P. o. spiloides.

Hatchlings and small juveniles look very similar, and a lot depends on the locality/region the animal came from. Do you know where your snake came from?

Google is useless in a matter like this.

[ilovemysnake]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

They are subspecies of the same species. Black rat is Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus and Grey rat is P. o. spiloides.

Hatchlings and small juveniles look very similar, and a lot depends on the locality/region the animal came from. Do you know where your snake came from?

Google is useless in a matter like this.

im actually not sure, he's a rescue, i want to say pa.

[StudentoReptile]

Probably a black. I don't think greys extend that far north. A dichotomous key when he is older may be helpful. But at the same time, who knows where he came from before he was brought to the rescue?

[ilovemysnake]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Probably a black. I don't think greys extend that far north. A dichotomous key when he is older may be helpful. But at the same time, who knows where he came from before he was brought to the rescue?

i got him from some guy when i went to fill out an application. he said he was found in a school and that he bit alot of people. he asked if they would take him, they said no. so he said he was going to throw him on the side if the road. and well, neither my fiance nor i would tolerate that, so we took him in. i want to assume hes from philly, because thats where the guys from. but the guy was clearly lying.
he eats f/t, and has never bit me or struck. very calm, very docile.

[StudentoReptile]

Well, either way, he is an American rat snake of the species, Pantherophis obsoletus sp., he obviously has a good home, and black and greys do naturally intergrade where their ranges overlap, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep what he is.

Watching his coloration change will be interesting.

[CosmicOwl]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

They are subspecies of the same species. Black rat is Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus and Grey rat is P. o. spiloides.

Hatchlings and small juveniles look very similar, and a lot depends on the locality/region the animal came from. Do you know where your snake came from?

Google is useless in a matter like this.

I think almost all of the North American rat snakes look alike as babies. Although the yellow and everglades rat snakes go through the most extreme changes.

[ilovemysnake]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Well, either way, he is an American rat snake of the species, Pantherophis obsoletus sp., he obviously has a good home, and black and greys do naturally intergrade where their ranges overlap, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep what he is.

Watching his coloration change will be interesting.

ive already noticed that since he's shed, he looks kinda darker.