Anybody able to tell the sex of my Sav? this one has me stumped..

[VaranidLover]

I'll cut right to the chase because I had a whole thing typed out but lost it ;"(

By the shape of the tail underneath, Crash looks to be male. There is a "channel" in the middle, and what looks like two hemipene bulges at the base of the tail, however, the head shape looks female according to a thread I read here some time ago (trying to find it but which said that "the head of a male is bigger than the female, females neck/head is more elongated males shorter/fatter)

What do you guys think?:





Crash is in shed in these pictures that's why he's so wrinkly, but as you can see in the 2nd picture, there is clearly a bulge at the base of the tail, and he/she has a pretty long neck/head, no?

And finally, a little off-topic but here's Crash's grow out tub. It is 42 inches long, 22 inches wide, and 20 inches tall. Crash is currently at 16-18 inches and 10 months old, was about 5-6 inches and 3 months old when he/she was put in there. Getting time to build the final enclosure which will be no problem, I plan to have it done by winters end (when the tub enclosure will definitely expire).






Just thought I'd share that as a lot of people wind up using big fish tanks to grow them out and all that, but this way, you can hold humidity and temps a lot better and all that great stuff. Took my about an hour or two to modify the tub to work as well, very easy.

[infernalis]

A couple things..

why the grow up cage at all? I dropped my babies directly into an 8x4x4 and raised them in that, perfectly.

Second, sexing savannah monitors seems to be a tough one, we usually have to wait until either they evert the hemipene or drop some eggs.

oh, and at peak.. they grow an inch per week with proper support.

Monitor lizards are travelers, they forage large areas in a short time, so the larger the enclosure, the better.

For all the best information, housing tips, diet and temps, please read over..

Correct Savannah Monitor Care

everything you need and more, all in one site.

[VaranidLover]

Originally Posted by infernalis

A couple things..

why the grow up cage at all? I dropped my babies directly into an 8x4x4 and raised them in that, perfectly.

Second, sexing savannah monitors seems to be a tough one, we usually have to wait until either they evert the hemipene or drop some eggs.

oh, and at peak.. they grow an inch per week with proper support.

Monitor lizards are travelers, they forage large areas in a short time, so the larger the enclosure, the better.

For all the best information, housing tips, diet and temps, please read over..

Correct Savannah Monitor Care

everything you need and more, all in one site.

I was worried about putting such a small lizard in such a big cage, I didn't think he'd be stressed by it or anything, I just had a hard time locating him when he was really small even in the 4x2x2 so I think it was a good way to go for my sake, looking back I'd have done things differently though. But yeah I had heard that they can grow an inch or two a week at their peak, however, the figures I offered weren't exact (I have to measure "him", good chance "he's" way past 16-18 inches honestly)

I have seen Crash poop multiple times but never seen any hemipenes, will offer a nestbox as well just in case it is female and decides to show me with some eggs.

[infernalis]

Why would you concern yourself with finding him?? are you handling??

epic example of everything wrong.

[VaranidLover]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Why would you concern yourself with finding him?? are you handling??

epic example of everything wrong.

Dude, I have a hot spot of 130-140f, cool side of 80, humidity ranging from 60-75% outside the burrow and 80-100% in the burrow, 12 inches of substrate, I feed him 90% insects, 10% rats, snails, crayfish ect, and lots of them, and he has plenty of room, and a soon to be finished adult enclosure. I don't handle him, besides once in a blue moon to do a health check and listen to his/her breathing ect (I do that with all my animals) So how am I "doing everything wrong"

Please do elaborate oh mighty one, since you obviously know everything. I didn't come looking for care advice, because I follow your own threads/advice as well as the link you posted (already had it and another years ago), and nothing major has been said besides minor disagreements/certain things I personally disagree with and do differently.

Now I remember why I left this place, thanks for reminding me.

[infernalis]

You clearly stated that

Originally Posted by VaranidLover

I just had a hard time locating him when he was really small even in the 4x2x2 so I think it was a good way to go for my sake.

Your sake?? how about the lizards sake?

Maybe, just maybe when they hide, it's because they don't want to be found.

If you don't like my attitude, that's fine... I care about the lizards, and you are housing one in a Tupperware box.

It's like having a sports car in a locked garage, where is it supposed to run? climb? is he burrowing?

[VaranidLover]

Originally Posted by infernalis

You clearly stated that

Your sake?? how about the lizards sake?

Maybe, just maybe when they hide, it's because they don't want to be found.

If you don't like my attitude, that's fine... I care about the lizards, and you are housing one in a Tupperware box.

It's like having a sports car in a locked garage, where is it supposed to run? climb? is he burrowing?

Dude.. he is at max 23 inches, and the tub is 4x2x2ft, not to mention he was barely 6-7 inches when I first got him and put him in there, and it's now JUST about time to upgrade, as I am. Where is the problem? Besides not putting him in a final enclosure asap which in my opinion, didn't hurt anything because he has optimal conditions.

And yes, he runs around the tub (I should get a picture from birds eye view, you'd realize he's very small compared to the tub.. again it is 4x2x2), he eats like a monster, he burrows, he hides when he sees me as he should, use to climb when I had logs in there but I removed them because they were falling apart, literally, he poops, pees, drinks regularly, sheds on time every month or so, ect. He is, according to my vet: "A healthy, very happy lizard".

When I said I couldn't even locate him in a 4x2x2, I meant if I just lift the lid and look in, and can't see him anywhere, he's either in his burrow, under some slate, up on his basking platform, or whatever, but for me, not seeing him flips me out because then I think he's escaped or something. He never does escape, I just have ocd about closing enclosures properly and in turn that leads to worrying about escapes, even though it will and can never happen. Irrational, but that's OCD for you.

I didn't mean to imply that I was handling him often or something, because again, I only do health checks every once in a while and really have only "held" him/her a handful of times, and not for long either.

[infernalis]

My apologies if I come across as harsh, Every day I run into someone with poorly cared for lizards and bad attitudes, and I do sincerely apologize (again) that that has calloused me into a hardened b'stard.

I have a solid memory, I remember what you went through with Lrrr, I was right here and it was pretty close to when I lost Chomper.

Further, I am going to be really honest, My animals are housed in a box that's way too small, the more time I spend studying these animals (right down to the bio mechanics of locomotion) the more guilty I feel for holding them captive at all.

This 8x4x4 minimum is alarmingly too small... and that's just MY opinion, as I honestly think that they should have enclosures that WE have to walk into.

I'll leave you alone now.

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by infernalis

This 8x4x4 minimum is alarmingly too small... and that's just MY opinion, as I honestly think that they should have enclosures that WE have to walk into.

I couln't agree more! I feel bad housing mine in an 8 x 4 now that he's almost full grown.

[Toothless]

I'm going to guess and say male. While the head is shorter and rounder, it's very ridgy (don't know how else to explain it ).

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by VaranidLover

I'll cut right to the chase because I had a whole thing typed out but lost it ;"(

By the shape of the tail underneath, Crash looks to be male. There is a "channel" in the middle, and what looks like two hemipene bulges at the base of the tail, however, the head shape looks female according to a thread I read here some time ago (trying to find it but which said that "the head of a male is bigger than the female, females neck/head is more elongated males shorter/fatter)

What do you guys think?:

Crash is in shed in these pictures that's why he's so wrinkly, but as you can see in the 2nd picture, there is clearly a bulge at the base of the tail, and he/she has a pretty long neck/head, no?

And finally, a little off-topic but here's Crash's grow out tub. It is 42 inches long, 22 inches wide, and 20 inches tall. Crash is currently at 16-18 inches and 10 months old, was about 5-6 inches and 3 months old when he/she was put in there. Getting time to build the final enclosure which will be no problem, I plan to have it done by winters end (when the tub enclosure will definitely expire).

Just thought I'd share that as a lot of people wind up using big fish tanks to grow them out and all that, but this way, you can hold humidity and temps a lot better and all that great stuff. Took my about an hour or two to modify the tub to work as well, very easy.

Hi, you asked for opinions so here`s mine; I think the tub is an awful way to keep the monitor in at an age (basically it`s a closed coffin). You mention the animal is now close to 2 feet long and there`s 12 inches of substrate in there, so in effect the monitor`s head would almost be touching the top (there`s only 10 inches "air space" and it looks like nothing much else in there), how is that remotely adequate in size or structure?
What type of heating/lighting are you using?
As far as which sex it is, can you crop the tail base pic and zoom in, also a few more in profile (as in the tail from the side but not resting on anything), and also the head from above?
I truly hope this is not female because at this size more than likely sexually mature with absolutely nowhere to deposit eggs (is the substrate heated to the high 70`s to mid 80`sF and tamped down as firmly as if you`d walked on it)?
No offense, I`m seriously trying to help, you need a proper enclosure as of right now....

[VaranidLover]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, you asked for opinions so here`s mine; I think the tub is an awful way to keep the monitor in at an age (basically it`s a closed coffin). You mention the animal is now close to 2 feet long and there`s 12 inches of substrate in there, so in effect the monitor`s head would almost be touching the top (there`s only 10 inches "air space" and it looks like nothing much else in there), how is that remotely adequate in size or structure?
What type of heating/lighting are you using?
As far as which sex it is, can you crop the tail base pic and zoom in, also a few more in profile (as in the tail from the side but not resting on anything), and also the head from above?
I truly hope this is not female because at this size more than likely sexually mature with absolutely nowhere to deposit eggs (is the substrate heated to the high 70`s to mid 80`sF and tamped down as firmly as if you`d walked on it)?
No offense, I`m seriously trying to help, you need a proper enclosure as of right now....

I'm working on his final enclosure as we speak, but I must say, your guesstimations are a little off. The Sav has plenty of air space (more than 10 inches because the top curves, and the mesh/holes drilled into the tub allows proper airflow anyways)

The highest point in the enclosure is the hot spot, and that is still 7-8 inches below the mesh, and when the Sav is on it, he does not touch the top at all, not even close. Again, I should get a birds eye view of him now (the pic where his tail is sticking out is when he was first put in the tub at 5-6 inches)

I use three lamps, with 65 watt flood lights in each one. The tub works better than tanks in terms of a grow out enclosure because it conforms to the soil, whereas in a tank it's completely rectangular and harder to hold/make a burrow. The tub is almost perfectly round, which eliminates that issue. Also, the tub holds heat/moisture better, while allowing you to customize it by drilling air holes to let out more heat/humidity, eventually, hitting a balance where it's not an oven in there, yet you have a hotspot of 130-140f and a cool side of 80, and every temp in between.

I don't see the problem here, I know so many knowledgeable/respectful herpers that grow their Savs out this way, or, more often in tanks/4x2x2 wooden enclosures. Once their Sav hits the 20-25 inch mark, it's time for an 8x4x4.

I'm doing nothing different, and all those people have healthy happy Savs.

I have to go to work for a few hours, but I'll be back to address everyone as I hoped to.

[Mikoh4792]

There are obviously people who know more than me about this matter in this thread, but if VaranidLover's sav is doing good in a smaller enclosure until it's final cage is setup what's the problem? Isn't 4x2x2 plenty of space for a small sav?

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

There are obviously people who know more than me about this matter in this thread, but if VaranidLover's sav is doing good in a smaller enclosure until it's final cage is setup what's the problem? Isn't 4x2x2 plenty of space for a small sav?

Hi, in what sense is the animal "doing good"? At this time the monitor is touching 2 feet with only (according to the OP) 7 INCHES of "air space" above the extremely wet looking bit of soil. That in your opinion is acceptable for such an intelligent and normally very active reptile like a Varanid?

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by VaranidLover

I'm working on his final enclosure as we speak, but I must say, your guesstimations are a little off. The Sav has plenty of air space (more than 10 inches because the top curves, and the mesh/holes drilled into the tub allows proper airflow anyways)

The highest point in the enclosure is the hot spot, and that is still 7-8 inches below the mesh, and when the Sav is on it, he does not touch the top at all, not even close. Again, I should get a birds eye view of him now (the pic where his tail is sticking out is when he was first put in the tub at 5-6 inches)

I use three lamps, with 65 watt flood lights in each one. The tub works better than tanks in terms of a grow out enclosure because it conforms to the soil, whereas in a tank it's completely rectangular and harder to hold/make a burrow. The tub is almost perfectly round, which eliminates that issue. Also, the tub holds heat/moisture better, while allowing you to customize it by drilling air holes to let out more heat/humidity, eventually, hitting a balance where it's not an oven in there, yet you have a hotspot of 130-140f and a cool side of 80, and every temp in between.

I don't see the problem here, I know so many knowledgeable/respectful herpers that grow their Savs out this way, or, more often in tanks/4x2x2 wooden enclosures. Once their Sav hits the 20-25 inch mark, it's time for an 8x4x4.

I'm doing nothing different, and all those people have healthy happy Savs.

I have to go to work for a few hours, but I'll be back to address everyone as I hoped to.

Hi again, the biggest problem is you not seeing the problems!
If it takes 195w to heat this plastic tub to approx. 24c (75f) in the coolest parts and á surface temp between approx. 50 to 60c (120 to 140f) at the "basking site" with (you claim) just 10 inches of air space there`s something badly wrong?
What`s the oldest (healthy) monitor all these other "knowledgeable" people keep just like you (females as well as males)?
It`s great you`re in the process of building (we hope) a properly supportive enclosure, can you show a few pics of progress so far? Thanks!
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention; it`s been recorded in the wild that the females can become sexually mature at only 27cm (10.5 INCHES) total length, that means if the same is true in captivity (no reason why it shouldn`t be) it would only take a few months for a fully supported hatchling to reach that size, and the conditions for nesting must be in place BEFORE gravidity, are you and all the others using these methods sure you`re offering proper support (you have no idea of the sex)?