Avoiding Asymptomatic IBD Carriers

Spirit_Scale · 09-04-13, 09:20 PM

Having one of those paranoid moments, but sometimes I wonder if Lazarus (my rescued BCI) could be one of those asymptomatic carriers. From what I understand boas can be asymptomatic carriers while the disease always kills pythons.

Lazarus is about 40 days into his 90 day quarantine.
His abscess has been drained and dealt with, and no mites anymore so far either. He sheds on his own in one piece (sometimes a smaller head piece due to scars and stitches) and seems to be able to crawl, strike and constrict no issues. He only goes to the bathroom in his water dish so it can be difficult to see if his bowel movements are firm/normal as the water breaks them down---but there's absolutely all three (urates, urine and feces) parts.
He doesn't flip himself over or stargaze or wobble around uncontrollably. He slithers around normally

He *DOES* however sometimes sway a bit/wobble/twists/flop a bit if he arches up and attempts to look/climb upwards without support etc, or if I am lifting him by his tail say up from inside his enclosure for that few seconds before I support the rest of him he seems to thrash/wobble. But he looks more unsteady/uncoordinated or like he's freaking out then spasmes or being disoriented. Sorta like he'll wobble once/twice and then correct himself.
He can turn over and eats no problem either.

However he DOES NOT (to my knowledge) spasm, stargaze, roll, twist, flop or corkscrew or do anything weird at rest or just cruising by himself. He's perfectly capable of slithering around and sitting perfectly still.

Still, it makes me nervous.
Is there a reliable blood test etc than can be preformed? (My understanding is there is a new blood test but am not sure if its reliable or available in Canada yet)

My other snake is a BP (in the back bedroom) and we've got a new BP in the house being quarantined in the last separate room in the house.

Lankyrob · 09-05-13, 04:00 AM

Personally i would restart quarantine once he is clear of all illness. So 90 days minimum from all clear

Corey209 · 09-05-13, 04:01 AM

I think someone made a similar post not too long ago with a video, have you tried giving him more things to climb on to build muscle?

Zoo Nanny · 09-05-13, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

Personally i would restart quarantine once he is clear of all illness. So 90 days minimum from all clear

Rob is spot on with this suggestion. Zoos will not end a quarantine until the animal is healthy for 90 consecutive days.

Spirit_Scale · 09-05-13, 04:50 AM

Thanks guys, he's due to get his stitches out on the 14th of September and so I'll get them to take a look at him, and depending on results I'll either restart the quarantine then or after he's done any additional treatment.

Am I correct in thinking that any sort of wobble/manifestation of IBD would suggest not being a latent/asymptomatic carrier thus if he survives 90 days with it that its not IBD?

Starbuck · 09-05-13, 05:36 AM

i thought i recalled someone saying on here that boas in particular could be carriers, similar to herpes in humans? As in they may show some signs of illness occassionally or in a single episode, but continue to shed the virus periodically throughout their lives? This is complete recall and im not at all sure its true.

Personally i'd see if you could look up a few scientific publications about IBD transmission/carriers, email the authors, and see if you can get a response. I know it sounds like a long shot, but a lot of the authors would be overjoyed to hear from a layman reading, and asking questions about, their work so would be happy to respond to you.
Best og luck.

formica · 09-05-13, 06:22 AM

when i first got my CRB, she was very wobbly when trying to reach up high, I gave her lots of branches to climb, which she does pretty much every day, shes now able to extend 2/3 of her body into the air without any wobbles, my assumption is that prior to coming to me she didnt have the opportunity to build much muscle in a simple tub, but the branches have enabled her to build up allot of strength

Spirit_Scale · 09-05-13, 07:01 AM

Just finished the daily maintenance with the snakes (with the BP who pees and passes urates I kid you not every day that includes a cage clean, then he and the BCI get water changes) which includes about 5-10 minutes of handling and me looking them over.

Looking closely he was spot on for everything except a little weak/wobbly when climbing upwards. Otherwise no issues (including that classic hold them up by the tail in the air and see if they corkscrew or wobble etc) so I'm thinking (and hoping) that he's just weak since he probably spent most of his life in a 6 inch tall tub before coming here.
Once he's out of QT I've got a big custom cage in the works for him, lots of climbing opportunities.

I'll see if I can find something easy to disinfect etc to put in his QT cage to help him learn to climb and I'll see if I can email the IBD publication authors too and see if I get anything.

Happy completely unrelated note: he's settling down finally and getting used to being handled

Not as tractable as my BP quite yet, but getting there. Probably helps that I don't have to medicate/inject him anymore lol.

KORBIN5895 · 09-05-13, 03:35 PM

Why are you lifting it by the tail? No wonder it freaked out as that is not a supportive or proper way to handle on one?

Spirit_Scale · 09-05-13, 04:58 PM

I don't normally---however it is helpful in sometimes checking for the neurological impairment as instead of simply hanging there or trying to move away the animal will corkscrew or flop around because they don't have the muscle control to suspend themselves from their tails.

Starbuck · 09-05-13, 06:05 PM

i would think corkscrew or winding behavior when being held up by the tail would be seen in a normal snake as well, as they searched for a perch? similar to a nervous cat/dog paddling when you pick it up off the floor? Maybe I'm confused about what your are describing; but i would NOT use that as a definitive diagnoses.

KORBIN5895 · 09-05-13, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spirit_Scale

I don't normally---however it is helpful in sometimes checking for the neurological impairment as instead of simply hanging there or trying to move away the animal will corkscrew or flop around because they don't have the muscle control to suspend themselves from their tails.

No it isn't helpful at all. Most snakes are not built to support themselves from from their tail.