Introduction and inquiry

[E-Tech Todd]

greetings everyone
My name is Todd and Eco is my Savannah Monitor
I am moderately experienced with caring for reptiles but have a broad range of experience with many exotic animals
Eco is our shop mascot. We rescued him about 2yrs ago from an owner that was just trying to offload him and clearly should not have owned a monitor to begin with.
He gets LOTS of attention and is well cared for.
As with my experience with other exotics, I try to foster his natural instincts as well as socialization and truly strive to give him a well rounded spectrum of experience.
I am almost finished with a new habitat and look forward to posting pics

I have one concern that I am hoping to get help with
I recently went to Eco in his cage, and to my horror, half of his tail had broken off!
I felt extremely guilty because we just went through a mad rush of business and I had not been as attentive to him as normal.
My guess was that he had become dehydrated. Is this correct?
I would greatly appreciate any insight so that I can avoid any future misshaps

With great respect
Todd

[murrindindi]

Hi, can you put a few photos up of the monitor, and give some details of the temps and humidity, heating/lighting, size and type of enclosure, substrate type and depth, etc? Thanks!

[E-Tech Todd]

Hi Murrindindi
His current enclosure is 6'w x 2'h x 2'd
Temp is generally 80 - 95 with 70-85% humidity
southern California offers us the opportunity to keep that pretty constant with little effort
Basking area has day and night lamps that are timer controlled
100 watt day...75 watt night
18" overhead florescent UV
For the substrate I use a combination of reptile sand and the bark chip kind
forgive me I cant recall what the actual name of it is
the depth varies but in general I keep it about one inch deep

His new enclosure will be 4'w x 5'h x 2.5' d
multi level for climbing
numerous hides
large dig bowl for mealworms etc
2' x 1.5' filtered and circulating pool
secondary small drinking dish on upper level
1 day and 2 night basking spots timer controled

I will post some pics shortly

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by E-Tech Todd

Hi Murrindindi
His current enclosure is 6'w x 2'h x 2'd
Temp is generally 80 - 95 with 70-85% humidity
southern California offers us the opportunity to keep that pretty constant with little effort
Basking area has day and night lamps that are timer controlled
100 watt day...75 watt night
18" overhead florescent UV
For the substrate I use a combination of reptile sand and the bark chip kind
forgive me I cant recall what the actual name of it is
the depth varies but in general I keep it about one inch deep

His new enclosure will be 4'w x 5'h x 2.5' d - Not long enough and too high
multi level for climbing-Not really arboreal, substrate and room to run is more important
numerous hides
large dig bowl for mealworms etcThe entire enclosure should be a dig bowl, enough to burrow in
2' x 1.5' filtered and circulating poolnot necessary,30 qt rubbermaid will do the trick and easy to clean
secondary small drinking dish on upper level
1 day and 2 night basking spots timer controled Why two spots at night and only one in the day? Also you need 45-60 watt flood lamps suspended 6-8 inches from the basking area, not 100 or 75 watt bulbs higher up. This maintains humidity much better

I will post some pics shortly

Hope that helps a bit

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by E-Tech Todd

Hi Murrindindi
His current enclosure is 6'w x 2'h x 2'd
Temp is generally 80 - 95 with 70-85% humidity
southern California offers us the opportunity to keep that pretty constant with little effort
Basking area has day and night lamps that are timer controlled
100 watt day...75 watt night
18" overhead florescent UV
For the substrate I use a combination of reptile sand and the bark chip kind
forgive me I cant recall what the actual name of it is
the depth varies but in general I keep it about one inch deep

His new enclosure will be 4'w x 5'h x 2.5' d
multi level for climbing
numerous hides
large dig bowl for mealworms etc
2' x 1.5' filtered and circulating pool
secondary small drinking dish on upper level
1 day and 2 night basking spots timer controled

I will post some pics shortly

Hi again, thanks for the details!
You basically need to know just two temps; the SURFACE at the basking site @ between approx 50 to 60c (120 to 140f), then the coolest ambient (air) @ approx 24c (75f).
The tube you`re using may be too far above the animal @ 18inches, what type is it?
It`s best to use a soil/playsand mix for substrate, it`s trial and error, but start around 70% soil to 30% playsand, it must be very well tamped down and slightly moist so it holds a burrow, and at least 15 to 22cm deep (6 to 9inches).
Obviously as the monitor grows over the next few months you`ll need more depth.
I agree the best type of heat bulbs are the low wattage halogens (flood, not spot). I think you might only need two @ 40w, raise/lower them or the basking object `til you get the desired surface temp (or fit a dimmer switch).
What are the usual ambient temps in the room the enclosure`s in (day and night)?

[E-Tech Todd]

Thanks so much for the input
I actually designed the new enclosure based on his personality and behavior,
while I do understand it is not typical...Eco is a climber
He climbs EVERYTHING. LOL
And as far as room to run around? Generally he has free reign of the shop.
We did limit him to the showroom area to keep him out of harms way in the factory...
but he absolutely LOVES being with us...and will often get upset if we are in a different room.
Honestly he is more like a dog than any monitor I have ever seen
He quite literally DEMANDS attention and will oftem climb up into my lap to be pet
he has even gone so far as to climb up on the couch and plop down next to me "snuggling" as I napped

He is quite the character

[infernalis]

Please read.....

Correct Savannah Monitor Care

Running around the shop & your caging is shortening lifespan deeply.

[E-Tech Todd]

Thanks Infernalis
I knew much of this...especially the feeding humidity etc
the smaller cluster of lights is a great tip
Unfortunately an enclosure of that size is not possible...so I am doing the best I can with what I have
I am also not operating in a vacuum
A very close friend of mine is a DFW officer and runs an exotic animal rescue center with a large number of endangered animals and a broad range of large lizards. Up to and including Komodos

Comparatively...when we rescued him he was in a 20gal fish tank with a half log, one lamp, a water bowl and no substrate at all

While I appreciate your concern... He will live far longer and have a significantly greater quality of life than he could possibly have had prior
Instead of telling me everything I am doing wrong...
how about suggestions to maximize the quality of what is available

I appeal to you guys as having more expertise...but please understand I am not without knowledge or experience.
I fully acknowledge that mine is not even remotely close to yours though

So... knowing my limitations...
suggestions for maximization?

I was thinking I could pull off three inches of substrate overall...possibly packing the very bottom hide with and extra inch
the lights are very close to the optimum distance you recommend and I will lower the wattage and turn the other basking area into a daylight one as well
The 18" florescent was recommended to provide UV regardless of basking...I can leave it out if you guys feel it is unnecessary
Remember too that I am in Southern California, so the atmosphere of the shop is nearly identical to the recommended temp and humidity for those times he is out and about

as always
with much respect
Todd

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by E-Tech Todd

I am not without knowledge or experience.

Everything you have said proves this statement to be false. The fact that your sav is so dehydrated that its tail broke off screams of inexperience and lack of knowledge.

Do you go to the doctor, let him diagnose your problem and once he gives you the proper solution tell him he is wrong and you have experience because you've had the problem for two years?

This site has some of the world's leading experts on monitors yet when they give you advice you claim to have experience and knowledge? Sorry but that's like telling a group of Hell's Angels that you've done hard time because your mommy put you on time out when you were naughty.

[E-Tech Todd]

Wow...
Since some cant seem to read for any other reason than to be rude and insulting...
let me clarify

I stated CLEARLY that he had not been getting the kind of attention he normally gets and that is when it happened...my responsibility and my error...NOT lack of anything other than time

however...as to my lack of knowledge and inexperience...
we have had him for over 2 1/2 years and this is the first time there has been ANY problems whatsoever.
When we rescued him he was 2 yrs old ...undersized, mal nourished, unsocialized, and severely neglected

SINCE THEN he has grown over a foot, he is socialized, active and a joy to have around
I also NEVER said anyone was WRONG. Quite the contrary
I simply stated that an "optimum" habitat setup was not possible and asked for suggestions to optimize the existing ircumstances


Anyone else feel the need to be rude, insulting, unhelpful and unwelcoming?
if so...please at least have actually READ the posts

I came here for the love of my animal and to seek guidance from the experts
to make the best of what is available
not to be insulted by people who dont even take the time to know what they're talking about

As always
much respect

[Mikoh4792]

E-tech todd, just because your monitor is in better care than it would be in if it was with it's previous owners, does not mean your care is acceptable.

Better does not equal good. Someone else could have taken him in and given him everything he needed.

Comparatively...when we rescued him he was in a 20gal fish tank with a half log, one lamp, a water bowl and no substrate at all

Unfortunately an enclosure of that size is not possible...so I am doing the best I can with what I have

I don't mean to be rude, but I will be straight forward. If it's minimum requirements can not be met, you should hand the animal over to someone can can give it what it needs. Again, doing the best you can does not mean you are doing good. If a D+ is the best score a student can achieve, it does not make it a good score.

[formica]

Originally Posted by E-Tech Todd

Wow...
Since some cant seem to read for any other reason than to be rude and insulting...
let me clarify

I stated CLEARLY that he had not been getting the kind of attention he normally gets and that is when it happened...my responsibility and my error...NOT lack of anything other than time

however...as to my lack of knowledge and inexperience...
we have had him for over 2 1/2 years and this is the first time there has been ANY problems whatsoever.
When we rescued him he was 2 yrs old ...undersized, mal nourished, unsocialized, and severely neglected

SINCE THEN he has grown over a foot, he is socialized, active and a joy to have around
I also NEVER said anyone was WRONG. Quite the contrary
I simply stated that an "optimum" habitat setup was not possible and asked for suggestions to optimize the existing ircumstances


Anyone else feel the need to be rude, insulting, unhelpful and unwelcoming?
if so...please at least have actually READ the posts

I came here for the love of my animal and to seek guidance from the experts
to make the best of what is available
not to be insulted by people who dont even take the time to know what they're talking about

As always
much respect

people on this forum have quite specific ideas about what constitutes good monitor care, and unfortunetly are frequently unable to convey that information without said insults, dont take it personally, they are like that to everyone! stick around tho, they arnt a bad bunch really

to be clear, monitor care is still experimental, and no-one on this forum has kept a Savannah monitor alive for 20 years, let alone the estimated potential of 40 years

There are 2 diffrent schools of thought on monitor care, one is that they should have 2 feet of soil and the other is that they can live comfortable lives without

what everyone agrees on, is that the nesting/sleeping area should be very high humidity, 80%, and that basking temperatures should be very high, around 130F, and that the general ambient temperatures should not be too cold and the ambient humidity should not go much below 50% - if the humidity is too low, then it can be detrimental to your Savs health, to the point of death

How you maintain the humidity and temperatures is up for debate imo, it is certainly easier, in a large sealed enclosure with 2 feet of soil, however 20 years of keeping reptiles and large tropical ant colonies has taught me that there are other ways to maintain high humidity and temperatures - but, I am only on my first Sav, since june this year, I am certainly not an expert on monitor care, many people on this forum have many years more experience, although none have kept a monitor alive to an old age as far as I am have been able to ascertain.

Many people believe that Savs should be allowed to dig their own burrows, and they certainly like to do that, although it has to be noted that in the wild, Savs make frequent use of dead trees as nests - baring in mind that humidity in Ghana averages 80-90%+ for most of the year - and that is the key imo, humidity must be very high

the other issue around soil, is females that need to lay eggs, they can and do become egg bound if they cant digg a nest for egg laying, this is not an issue for your male of course

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by E-Tech Todd

Wow...


I stated CLEARLY that he had not been getting the kind of attention he normally gets and that is when it happened...my responsibility and my error...NOT lack of anything other than time




I came here for the love of my animal and to seek guidance from the experts
to make the best of what is available
not to be insulted by people who dont even take the time to know what they're talking about

As always
much respect

Unfortunately your current problem could've been completely avoided if you actually had a proper setup. So when you couple an inadequate setup with neglect this is what happens.

You can call me rude, mean, illiterate or whatever you wish but it doesn't change the truth and the truth is that your poor husbandry is slowly killing you beloved pet and your pride is standing in the way.

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by formica

I am certainly not an expert on monitor care, many people on this forum have many years more experience, although none have kept a monitor alive to an old age as far as I am have been able to ascertain.

You should talk to crocdoc about this as he would really surprise you I think.

[infernalis]

I simply put the data out there, if it gets used great...