Weird Frozen Thawed Mouse

[Ryodraco]

So today I was feeding Cali (original name for a california kingsnake, I know) and as I checked how thawed the mice were I noticed something strange.

One of the mice felt all stiff, as if it was full of some hard substance, yet it was not at all cold. I've never felt anything like it from a frozen thawed feeder before. Could it have been incorrectly preserved somehow? Not knowing what to make of it, I (likely foolishly) still offered it to Cali.

Well Cali seemed to think something was up with it. She ate the normal frozen thawed mouse just fine but wouldn't touch the strange one.

Unfortunately I didn't save the body or try to dissect it, didn't think to do so until I had already flushed the mouse down the toilet on impulse. So without being able to provide anything beyond the information I just did, I was still curious if anyone here might have any ideas as to what might have been wrong with it?

[Theweinz]

Originally Posted by Ryodraco

So today I was feeding Cali (original name for a california kingsnake, I know) and as I checked how thawed the mice were I noticed something strange.

One of the mice felt all stiff, as if it was full of some hard substance, yet it was not at all cold. I've never felt anything like it from a frozen thawed feeder before. Could it have been incorrectly preserved somehow? Not knowing what to make of it, I (likely foolishly) still offered it to Cali.

Well Cali seemed to think something was up with it. She ate the normal frozen thawed mouse just fine but wouldn't touch the strange one.

Unfortunately I didn't save the body or try to dissect it, didn't think to do so until I had already flushed the mouse down the toilet on impulse. So without being able to provide anything beyond the information I just did, I was still curious if anyone here might have any ideas as to what might have been wrong with it?

Where did you get the mouse from? Maybe froze and refrozen several times, but overall sounds scary!

[Ryodraco]

Originally Posted by Theweinz

Where did you get the mouse from? Maybe froze and refrozen several times, but overall sounds scary!

Basic adult "arctic mouse" from Petsmart. Like I said, never encountered one like it before, and all the other mice in the box were normal.

[Starbuck]

sounds like maybe it got desiccated from improper/multiple freezings? at least it sounds like the snake knew what was up lol

[KORBIN5895]

I get rodents like that often And my snakes never have an issue eating them. I have always just chalked it up to rigor mortis.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

I get rodents like that often And my snakes never have an issue eating them. I have always just chalked it up to rigor mortis.

Exactly... Rigor, a natural process.

[Ryodraco]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Exactly... Rigor, a natural process.

I'm aware of rigor mortis, but thought that it took some time of normal decay after death for it to occur. Normally when thawed the mice I use feel as if they only died recently.

Still, rigor is indeed the best explanation I think, perhaps brought on by desiccation.

[formica]

Rigor Mortis lasts only hours, and it doesnt survive the freezing process as the cells in the body break down, everything becomes soft.


It would have been freezer burn, this is when something is frozen but not seal properly, u'll find it on for eg any frozen Veg that may have dropped out of packets into the bottom of your freezer, the area often turns white and hard

[Ryodraco]

Originally Posted by formica

It would have been freezer burn, this is when something is frozen but not seal properly, u'll find it on for eg any frozen Veg that may have dropped out of packets into the bottom of your freezer, the area often turns white and hard

And it stays hard even when thawed?

[formica]

Originally Posted by Ryodraco

And it stays hard even when thawed?

if its 'freezer burn' then yeah it will stay hard, essentially the freezer sucks all the moisture out of the product if it is not sealed in an airtight container (anti-frost mechinism of modern freezers removes all moisture). My guess would be that the mouse fell out of the packet into the bottom of the freezer and stayed their for a few months, gradually getting dehydrated (aka Freeze-Dried), then it was finally noticed and put back in with a load of properly sealed mice.


try dropping a few bits of veg into the bottom of your freezer (assuming its anti-frost) and u'll see the same effect after a while, depending on the efficiancy of the freezer it culd be a couple of months, could take a year - commercial frozen products are often frozen for years on end


this is entirly speculation of course, it might have had an alien baby inside it waiting for a new host

[venom_king]

if there was an alien better track down 'Ellen Ripley' aka signorey weaver

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by formica

Rigor Mortis lasts only hours, and it doesnt survive the freezing process as the cells in the body break down, everything becomes soft.

This is something I didn't know. Thanks! I have some rabbits I killed that I left out til I could hit a home run with them and I will be thawing one soon. I will let you know what o see.

[Lupinus]

I'm new to snakes but kept mice for lizards when I was in high school, and just general food knowledge itself. I'm going to agree with formica on freezer burn.

Ever take a steak or chicken breast or whatever from the freezer and it has a lighter patch that looks kind of like jerky, and is harder than the surrounding meat? Usually somewhere near an edge? That be freezer burn, which as formica explained is basically drying out in a cold temperature similar to freeze drying, but the average home freezer doesn't get cold enough of do the process fast enough to truly freeze dry something. Hence, it's freezer burn not freeze dried.

And also right on the rigor mortis. Not everything in a body "dies" at the same time. Several parts of the body and functions can live for several hours after death. RM is basically the skeletal muscles tensing up and unable to relax, causing the joints to stiffen. It'll go away naturally in time, but freezing it will either stop or prevent it from happening in the first place.