Monitor enclosure discussion thread

[mo9e64]

Wayne, a lot of what you learned making your adult cage,was i would imagine helped by what you did right or wrong on your first cages.Reading about things is not the same thing as experiencing them-beginners will still need to work through issues when setting up their cages whether big or small.
And as far as a start up cage being a waste of money,it's the mere fraction of the cost of an adult cage.Anybody who is thinking about keeping the medium to large monitors shouldn't have money issues-it's expensive.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by mo9e64

Wayne, a lot of what you learned making your adult cage,was i would imagine helped by what you did right or wrong on your first cages.Reading about things is not the same thing as experiencing them-beginners will still need to work through issues when setting up their cages whether big or small.
And as far as a start up cage being a waste of money,it's the mere fraction of the cost of an adult cage.Anybody who is thinking about keeping the medium to large monitors shouldn't have money issues-it's expensive.

I still think the single biggest factor being overlooked, and I have brought this up a few times before.

It's human nature to procrastinate stepping up the cage, "It's OK for now" until "for now" turns into 3 years with an animal stuffed in a box that's too small to accomidate it's needs.

I have no "study" to cite, but I would be willing to bet at least HALF of the people who start out with a smaller cage never get around to building the big one.

I have talked to a lot of people on a lot of forums for quite a few years, and I have read every excuse from "I let it roam all day" to "It's OK, he only sleeps in there"

If I had faith that everyone that started out with a cage too small to support an adult would actually follow through and build that bigger cage they keep on telling the forums that they will "one day" get around to building, I would feel a lot differently than I do about this.

And yes Moe, you are correct, much of what I learned is a direct result of my failure with Chomper, so now you know why this subject has such a powerful grip on what I tell people. I tell people what I do, so their lizards will live longer healthier lives than Chomper did.

[SnakeyJay]

Well said Wayne... I keep seeing your "failure" with chomped brought up in this argument and it's annoying the hell out of me! Yes you had a failure as many people have, however you didnt hide it, lie about it or just plain old ignore it n start again as most people would... It seems that someone wants to make sure every newbie with varanids on here knows about champers death, so you look like you don't know what your talking about...
But that's the point.... The death of chomper has fuelled your passion to get it right and help others do so!...
Soz for the rant, just had to be said.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay-BRB

Well said Wayne... I keep seeing your "failure" with chomped brought up in this argument and it's annoying the hell out of me! Yes you had a failure as many people have, however you didnt hide it, lie about it or just plain old ignore it n start again as most people would...

And this is one of the reasons why Wayne is as respected as he is by new and seasoned varanid keepers

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay-BRB

It seems that someone wants to make sure every newbie with varanids on here knows about champers death, so you look like you don't know what your talking about...

Well Wayne himself makes no bomes about the mistakes he has made and I doubt that Mo has brought it up to cast a shadow on Waynes name. Mo can be tough to take, much like my self, LOL, but his heart is in the right place. It is actually good to see so many varanid keepers who are so passionate about their captives all in one spot.

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay-BRB

But that's the point.... The death of chomper has fuelled your passion to get it right and help others do so!...
Soz for the rant, just had to be said.

Yet another reason why Wayne is respected.

[SnakeyJay]

Oh I can deal with and talk to almost any person, and I understand that moe is just as passionate about varanids... Moe probably isn't saying it to cast a bad light, but saying it repeatedly with no context surrounding it, it would be very easy for someone reading to misinterpret the point being made and to make assumptions from it.

[infernalis]

One thing I would like to clear up, Moe and I take pokes back and forth, but that in no way indicates any dislike for the guy.

Heck, I like at least a few people to challenge what they read on forums, it encourages proof.. Like that old saying "pics or it didn't happen"

If no one challenged things being said, then where would that leave the people who don't know the gold from the turd??

Think of it like this, we all know that the petco care sheet for Savannah Monitors is like the worst printed document ever published regarding animal care, yet day after day people pluck copies off the rack and commit that trash information to memory, Why???

Because no one is standing there next to that rack challenging that document to prove/disprove what it says.

[SnakeyJay]

Fair point Wayne... I didn't mean to start an argument, I like moe myself from what I've seen. just voicing an opinion on how it could look to somebody who doesn't know past details.

[mo9e64]

I hope people will take my view in a positive light-the death of chomper was not my intention to bring up about him learning from his first cages,it was purely from him learning from those experiences to build his current cage.I know that Wayne will be successful with his two Savs ,i have no doubt.
It's tough having good intentions and irritating the crap out of people LOL-one post Brady and Lankyrob gave it to me really good,these are two pretty nice guys.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by mo9e64

I hope people will take my view in a positive light-the death of chomper was not my intention to bring up about him learning from his first cages,it was purely from him learning from those experiences to build his current cage.I know that Wayne will be successful with his two Savs ,i have no doubt.
It's tough having good intentions and irritating the crap out of people LOL-one post Brady and Lankyrob gave it to me really good,these are two pretty nice guys.

If I ever thought for one moment that your intent was malicious in nature, I would have used the ban button.

However, I know better.

And honestly, as much as I do miss Chomper, I am having a total blast this time around, and I'm sure those two lucky little lizards are better off now than they ever would have been in someone else's care or even in the wild

when I compare the behaviour of these monitors to that of Chomper at the same age, it speaks volumes about properly supporting them from day one.

Heck, I can't even get my hand near one without getting bit.

Some people may not find that attractive, but I prefer animals to behave as they should.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Heck, I can't even get my hand near one without getting bit.

Some people may not find that attractive, but I prefer animals to behave as they should.

One thing people need to understand when they get into varanids is they are not lap lizards. We have all made this mistake when we first got into keeping them. It is pretty easy to think that you will have a big puppy dog with scales.

Eventually they will not see you as a threat and some will handle interaction just fine but you shoud not sit on your sofa with your monitor expect it to watch American Idol with you. LOL

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

One thing people need to understand when they get into varanids is they are not lap lizards. We have all made this mistake when we first got into keeping them. It is pretty easy to think that you will have a big puppy dog with scales.

Eventually they will not see you as a threat and some will handle interaction just fine but you shoud not sit on your sofa with your monitor expect it to watch American Idol with you. LOL

Unfortunatly Gregg, most newbs fall for the lap lizard pictures and clips all over the damn net.

If I had a quarter for every post I have ever read that asked about "taming" a monitor, I could go out to dinner at beefsteak Charlie's.

[bushsnake]

"taming" a monitor haha i love that one too Wayne, i had a friend who wanted to tame a male blue tree montor for presentations...i said "your gonna kill it trying"...some people have boulders for a head...poor lizard

[bushsnake]

...now the same person wants to tame a dwarf caiman for the same reason, some people need to stay away from the public with bad ideas like that

[crocdoc]

Up until today I was Facebook 'friends' with a guy who owns juveniles of the following species: American alligator, reticulated python, African rock python, scrub python, green anaconda, crocodile monitor, water monitor, blue-tail monitor, Nile monitor, ornate monitor and a few others (I've forgotten which other species he has). He lives in a state which is cold enough that he wouldn't be able to house any of them outdoors when (or if) they reach adult size. I don't know how the alligator or snakes are kept, but the photographs I've seen of his monitors show that they're in glass aquaria with newspaper or astroturf for substrate, with screen tops and apparently no access to proper basking spots. Judging by the post dates on his photographs, none of his animals has grown significantly in the year or so since he started posting photographs of them.

His big thing is all about how tame they are and how he's able to tame them by spending so much time with them. Other people can't tame them as well as he can.

He wants to get a saltwater crocodile one day. I suggested to him that perhaps he should wait until at least some of his animals have grown, to see how he can cope with housing them, before getting any more. I also mentioned that, in my opinion, big crocodiles like Niles and saltwater crocodiles shouldn't be owned by private individuals because they invariably need to be rehomed and then end up moving around so much they end up dead before long. He told me I was negative and I shouldn't get in the way of him and his dreams, so I suggested he de-friend me because I wasn't about to change my attitude towards animal abuse.

He de-friended me, which is good because now I don't have to tell him what I REALLY think.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by crocdoc

He de-friended me, which is good because now I don't have to tell him what I REALLY think.

I can imagine... There are many like him out there.