Boa & Python Breeding together

[gonesnakee]

Well I wasn't going to touch this when I first saw it yesterday, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. First - Whats done is done, slamming them for keeping them together & leaving the eggs there etc. etc. etc. doesn't change the past. We can only try to provide help for the future. People aren't going to follow your advice, even if it is good if you come across like an AHole. Secondly this could very well be a scientific first & if we look at the past, heck remember how they used to treat people who thought the world was round. Just because it is totally unbelievable doesn't mean it isn't true & not everyone in the world owns a digital camera & takes pics of everything and even if they do we all can mess with pics as much as we want so they offer very little in reguards to proof or evidence as far as I'm concerned. As stated the only way to find out for sure is DNA testing etc. & even then the whole "imaculate concept" thing would still be very hard to prove as we would all have to beleive that this snake was never with another of the opposite sex ever (with the exception of the boa which could be proved by the DNA). Anyhow its all very interesting & I would like to see a future thread(s) in reguards to this. So Goopers5 if you quit this site just because of a few people you are a fool as nothing anyone says means Jack unless you want it too & if everytime someone gives you a little attitude you'll "abandon ship", you'll find yourself missing out on alot of things in life as a result of that because no matter what or where there are people of all types whether we like it or not, can't just keep running from them you'll jsut find more elsewhere. I choose to ignore those that I can't be bothered with & we all must sift thru them to find out who is worthy of bothering to acknowledge & who is not. Anyhow irreguardless of whether you can prove it scientifically or not people will still always doubt you. Some of us are very interested though & would like to see you post info in reguards to such in the future. NUFF SAID Good Luck Mark
P.S. I too would recomend some research etc. into husbandry etc.

[Goopers5]

Thank you for your post. I have taken what people have said here and will be using a lot of it. My reaction was from shock, I have never been on a site like this since the snake interests of mine are minimal compared to my boyfriend whose snakes they are. I was simply trying to research what to do and how to handle this and I wasn't expecting such a rude reaction from so many people. I do sincerely appreciate the help people have given us and as soon as we get results (because this is just too much of a mistery to let go) I will let you know. I am assuming though it will be a little while to a) find someone who will do this testing and then b) get the results since I believe (not sure) that takes at least one or two weeks.

I will keep you posted! Thanks again!

[MouseKilla]

I would all but rule out the boa's having fathered this clutch but a normal person and most keepers have never heard of parthenogenesis, (which is at least a somewhat plausible explaination for this, though a remote one) so you can't fault these people for initially assuming that it takes two snakes to make baby snakes. Looking at them though it's absolutely obvious to me that there is zero boa influence, they're just some sad looking burms.

Of course it's more reasonable to think that she must have had contact with a male burm at some time but we're being told that there wasn't any such contact. We can believe them or not, it hasn't been an especially explosive thread so I don't think this is a case of trolling.

What I think likely happened is a couple of people, which I'll charitably refer to as "novice" keepers, have had an extremely rare event take place in their cage and are looking for an explanation. I think it's an honest inquiry and unfortunately the question has barely been adressed because the keeper's inexperience became known and attacked.

It's unfortunate because most of us, in particular those among us that are most experieced with keeping and breeding, would simply kill to have something as unusual and interesting as a parthenogenic clutch happen in their own cage.

[madison.s]

Goopers5,you should have known that you would get this type of response as this is very unlikely and i am sure did not happen at all. heres the thing if you did not want to be famous you would never have posted this post and ya whats done is done but the point still is that you incubated the eggs,you said in the beginning that you take all the eggs except the ones that were died and incubated them and left the others with the mom. right there that is saying that you were trying to have the eggs hatch. So you did do this on purpose (i am not saying it is real because i dont believe it) and why would you be wanting a univeristy to investgate it if you are not trying to what start a new breed. You should never have incubated the eggs at all. so what do you plan on doing with the babies if you are not trying to sell them as you say,what you are going to keep them all. I am really surprised how many people are ok with someone doing this(again not that this is true) well i guess you well make lots of money off of them if anyone acually beleives you. oh by the way housing 2 different snakes together is nothing like housing a dog and cat together really people look at this as another person trying to make a new breed or just lieing about it to make more money.

[dave68]

Yep and to an end we travel and the tides be turnin my friends. We all can get along with a smile and a kind word (clears throat)SORRY!! ya I'm an @$$#hole in the ground some times. I really do wish you well and good luck with those babies!!!

Dave

[Goopers5]

You can think whatever you want, it wasn't on purpose or to be famous. Thanks for your help!

[rwg]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
...Colombian boas and burms live on opposite sides of the planet and have different reproductive systems. Boa have live birth and pythons lay eggs...

Are they really that different? Boas are ovoviviparous, not viviparous, meaning they hatch eggs internally, and bear the young live. Not saying it's like corns and kings...just not THAT different really.

rg

[Matt.B]

yes but pythons lay eggs correct me if im wrong

[rwg]

Correct. I'm just wondering how different the reproductive systems of ovoviviparous and oviparous snakes are. Certainly viviparous (nourished in utero via placenta) and oviparous are pretty different, but it seems to my naive understanding that ovoviviparous is more like oviparous than like viviparous as far as the actual anatomy and function of the reproductive system goes.

[hooter]

Interesting topic. I have no comments on the subject but i can tell you that the way you people treat new people just blows my mind. Just because you dont believe someone does not mean you put them down and automaticly think you know its fake/false.

Things do happen and if you want proof just ask for it im sure you could have asked for proof without putting someone down for their snake keep skills and or incubation skills... She already said she didnt breed snakes and just because you guys are SNAKE NERDS that have nothing better to do than to breed snakes 24/7 *not saying thats wrong because i do as well :P* but c'mon people lets get real and act our age...

[madison.s]

hooter, I think the only reason that people(including me) are being well less then nice is because she should never have housed them together and i think the only reason someone would put a python and boa together would be to try and breed them (that is my opinion),again why would someone that knows that their female has not been around another male of the same incubate the eggs unless she was trying to make themself "famous". really it is not that this may or may not be true it is the point behind it, not knowing how to incubate is one thing but why would you not ask for help with incubateing them before they hatched unless again you were up to something. it has nothin to do with being a new member,me personally i would say the same and feel the same weither it was a new member or even one of the MODs that posted something like this. either way it is very wrong.

[Goopers5]

PS after talking to my boyfriend regarding the subject of her incubating them herself, he also told me that in several books he has read, there is a higher chance of survival for Burmese Python eggs to hatch if they are incubated by the snake, not in a machine . Thanks!

[ChokeOnSmoke]

I was just wondering if maybe having a male (pheromones, maybe attempting to breed) present in the cage could have had an effect on the parthenogenesis. Maybe she wasn't impregnated by him but some stimulation caused by the boa triggered the parthenogenetic pregnancy.
I know next to nothing about it, just a thought.

I don't agree with how some people were jumping all over you about the husbandry. You have to start somewhere and now that you have learned you can put that information to use. Like someone already said there isn't anything we can do about the past. Its done and now all we can do is improve the present and future.

A word of warning, if you keep hanging out on this you interest in snakes wont be minimal compared to your boyfriends. You will probably end up with your own collection.

[Goopers5]

I know, it's bad I have already claimed one... haven't held it yet, but it has to be one of the the few we don't give away eventually

Thanks for your help, I think someone else mentioned the same thing, the male may have triggered the beginning of fertilization in the female so you are not the only one to think of that, who knows!

I emailed a guy named Bob Clark that has a website about pythons (anyone know anything abou thim? He has a lot of articles dating back to the 80's so I thought he might be able to help...) and I have gotten some other email addresses from people, so hopefully we will figure it out.

THANKS!

[michele.kyle]

i am not sure what all this is but could one of them be like my corns? mate once then like a a rabbit absorb eggs therefore the male has nothing to do with it ? only a thought !