Recent Komodo postings of Dr. Bryan Fry

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Rob_H

and absolutely no evidence, in my mind, that Komodos do NOT use bacteria as a ‘venom’ when killing prey.
Cheers,
Rob

Hi again, I`d like to ask for the evidence they DO use bacteria as a "venom", hasn`t this already been explained in some detail?
Just asking, it`s been a very interesting discussion so far!

[venomdoc]

Despite the ubiquitousness of this concept in nature 'documentaries', there has been a shocking lack of evidence to back it up. It was a concept by Auffenberg that was never tested and instead accepted as gospel. Science-fail.

[venomdoc]

As the saying goes 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' and bacteria-as-a-weapon would be an unprecedented form of predation strategy. Yet, despite this, it was not previously examined critically. It was instantly accepted because it was enchanting... just like most fairy tales.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by venomdoc

Despite the ubiquitousness of this concept in nature 'documentaries', there has been a shocking lack of evidence to back it up. It was a concept by Auffenberg that was never tested and instead accepted as gospel. Science-fail.

I concur. Absolutely everything makes sense here.

What is interesting is that it's all so simple that I am surprised that no one questioned the whole bacteria theory previously.

In the documentaries, they always show the water buffalo going straight to those filthy watering holes, how is it no one ever questioned this before?

There was a young man I went to school with, he slipped in a barn and scraped his shin on a manure trough. He did not seek medical attention, within a day his fever shot up to lethal levels and within a few days of the scrape he was pronounced dead.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by venomdoc

As the saying goes 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' and bacteria-as-a-weapon would be an unprecedented form of predation strategy. Yet, despite this, it was not previously examined critically. It was instantly accepted because it was enchanting... just like most fairy tales.

Walter Auffenberg was the leading "expert" on komodoensis (he`s done some great work), his assertions were the "proof", no need to question or test too thoroughly, it made sense?
At one time komodoensis was thought to be almost blind and deaf (Attenborough), though now we know that`s not true at all...
Then you come along with your detailed scientific studies and spoil the whole thing as far as the bacteria "venom" brigade are concerned... (Sincere thanks)!!

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Walter Auffenberg was the leading "expert" on komodoensis (he`s done some great work), his assertions were the "proof", no need to question or test too thoroughly, it made sense?
At one time komodoensis was thought to be almost blind and deaf (Attenborough), though now we know that`s not true at all...
Then you come along with your detailed scientific studies and spoil the whole thing as far as the bacteria "venom" brigade are concerned... (Sincere thanks)!!

Bryan is in league with the dark lord, burn him!

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Bryan is in league with the dark lord, burn him!

Do you have scientific evidence for that assertion Wayne (other than purely circumstantial and everything points to it)????

[infernalis]

I shall need no proof. The prophets warned of such blasphamy!

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Komodo dragons have venomous bite

[murrindindi]

It`s said the Komodo dragon has a relatively weak bite force, and compared to some animals that`s true, though 600lb sq. inch (tested) is still a hard bite (that`s about the same as a lion), and I wouldn`t want to get bitten by one of those either (even without the venom)!!

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

It`s said the Komodo dragon has a relatively weak bite force, and compared to some animals that`s true, though 600lb sq. inch (tested) is still a hard bite (that`s about the same as a lion), and I wouldn`t want to get bitten by one of those either (even without the venom)!!

Absolutely.

I would not want to be bitten by your monitor either Stefan...

[mdfmonitor]

These dragons know who's boss in their environment, a well heated hungry captive monitor will have a go at anything, so it seems reasonable to think that a hungry king komodo will just have a go, just in case they get a reward.

I can't see why a komodo would follow a possible prey item round unless it knew the prey item time was very near, waste of energy, sit in the bushes wait for that smell of death to be blown across on the breeze or something they can jump out at.

their powerful bodies are built for one thing only!!

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by mdfmonitor

These dragons know who's boss in their environment, a well heated hungry captive monitor will have a go at anything, so it seems reasonable to think that a hungry king komodo will just have a go, just in case they get a reward.

I can't see why a komodo would follow a possible prey item round unless it knew the prey item time was very near, waste of energy, sit in the bushes wait for that smell of death to be blown across on the breeze or something they can jump out at.

their powerful bodies are built for one thing only!!

They aren't just "sit and wait" predators, I`ve seen them (on film) openly chasing deer that had previously been bitten for what looked like several hundred metres. They can run for some distance at their maximum speed (at least 400m), that`s some stamina for a "simple, primitive reptile" as they were once thought to be. Of course they aren`t "simple", far from it, very sophisticated and advanced in many ways.

[mdfmonitor]

Their endurance & intelligence is amazing compared to a corn snake, but not so amazing compared to a wolf.

from the vids i've watched they usually lunge at their intended prey items & inflict hopefully enough damage in order to slow their prey items down, so they can then chase them down.

For me their intelligence is learned through food/breeding & surviving, i'm sure they have a social pecking order, but not to the extent wolfs have etc, so to me these amazing creatures are raw bull headed creatures that can strut their stuff.

A healthy monitor walks with attitude & when large enough is mostly fearless, that's when monitors like niles fall victims to crocs raiding croc nests, that's why we see monitors fighting with wild cats & tail whipping lions on youtube vids.

Their learning is at a slower pace than a dog etc, i'm just starting to witness that young argus remembering where they found previously after 12 weeks ( i'm longer handing the food on a plate ), they smell food & go back & look in the same place as the prey items was previously found the night before.

In the vid i just posted (a previous post) one of the clips the monitor has a 2 foot wall to climb to grab the mouse, she/he jump once & looked then accessed & decided to run up the easy way, 3/4 weeks ago she'd been jumping like a mad hatter at the 2 foot of ply.

these are amazing creatures but they will always be placed in a certain place on the intelligence & endurance ladder, assuming they've had opportunities to develop their brains!

stuck in a small bare cage fed dead mice at the same time every night, what chance do they have to learn compared to their cousins living wild which when they make mistake their dead or starving.

Komodo dragon it doesn't make sense why they'd need to use venom with the body they pack, don't make sense for them to chase miles & miles after prey items when they have the intelligence to pick a sure bet & sense a sure bet miles away that's dead or well on the way to dying.

just my thoughts means nothing at end of the day!

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by mdfmonitor

Komodo dragon it doesn't make sense why they'd need to use venom with the body they pack, don't make sense for them to chase miles & miles after prey items when they have the intelligence to pick a sure bet & sense a sure bet miles away that's dead or well on the way to dying.

just my thoughts means nothing at end of the day!

Hi Mark, I believe wolves often chase prey for significant distances (literally miles), with their obvious intelligence you`d think they`d pick the sick and dying animals and not chase anything anywhere!? Isn`t intelligence strange (glad I don`t have much)....
The Komodo dragon`s venom helps them dispose of their usual prey in a very short space of time, surely that`s a great addition to their arsenal?

[mdfmonitor]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi Mark, I believe wolves often chase prey for significant distances (literally miles), with their obvious intelligence you`d think they`d pick the sick and dying animals and not chase anything anywhere!? Isn`t intelligence strange (glad I don`t have much)....
The Komodo dragon`s venom helps them dispose of their usual prey in a very short space of time, surely that`s a great addition to their arsenal?

Didn't Dr Fry say that these enzymes can be found in most saliva such as dogs etc to some degree (i'm not reading it all again) & don't we use the same process to help our digestion!! but is more rapid in rattle snakes digestion etc.

if that's not what was said i'm getting out whilst the going is good!!