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Old 08-13-04, 11:34 PM   #76
Ryan and Katie
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Goopers5- I don't think you took our post right. We don't believe that those are crosses... So this has nothing to do with fame or mixed breeding. We don't think you're horrible it just can be frustrating to see something that could have been dealt with better if you had a little bit more info.
You mentioned maternal incubation being better for the snake. You may want to do a little more research. Artificial incubation generally results in better hatch rates and the female can be fed soon after laying instead of waiting for the eggs to hatch. Maternal incubation requires specific environmental conditions to be met and is typically harder to do with any good rates of success. Everyone makes mistakes but it is your job as a responsible snake keeper to ensure you make as few as possible. There is always more to learn.
It's nice to see that there are people willing to help and I hope that you get good advice on the care of the babies and the adults...
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Old 08-13-04, 11:57 PM   #77
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Invictus, YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD!

C.

BTW: Gooper25: I dont think the university would pay for that, as they would have no reason to believe you once they heard everything that happened. They would get you to pay for the tests and if infact something interesting did happen, then they might cover it.

C.
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Old 08-14-04, 12:50 AM   #78
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Do any of you own cats or dogs? If so have you researched them until you know it all? If there was a forum on cats/dogs, I would hope you could post there and get good information and NOT be condemned by the 'regulars' for not being informed.
Housing two totally different types of snakes? My logic says that would be like housing a cat and a dog in the same house. Many do it. If they don't fight it works right?
The fact that so many of the eggs hatched means they did sometning right. Nature has a way of helping out even the not so informed keepers of His creatures.
So, instead of being so critical of somebody, let's try to help!
This forum is becoming so critical that even I am afraid to ask any questions for fear that is is common knowledge to someody that learned it along the way........by trial and error or by research. Isn't this site about helping us 'don't know it all's'?
So think back to the first snake you owned. Did you not learn by asking?
Carol
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Old 08-14-04, 01:15 AM   #79
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Housing two totally different types of snakes? My logic says that would be like housing a cat and a dog in the same house. Many do it. If they don't fight it works right
Two snakes aren't a dog and a cat, snakes are solitary animals....these snakes are from different ends of the earth with different requirements also, it's impossible to provide perfect husbandry for BOTH snakes.
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Old 08-14-04, 08:53 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
Do any of you own cats or dogs? If so have you researched them until you know it all? If there was a forum on cats/dogs, I would hope you could post there and get good information and NOT be condemned by the 'regulars' for not being informed.
Housing two totally different types of snakes? My logic says that would be like housing a cat and a dog in the same house. Many do it. If they don't fight it works right?
The fact that so many of the eggs hatched means they did sometning right. Nature has a way of helping out even the not so informed keepers of His creatures.
So, instead of being so critical of somebody, let's try to help!
This forum is becoming so critical that even I am afraid to ask any questions for fear that is is common knowledge to someody that learned it along the way........by trial and error or by research. Isn't this site about helping us 'don't know it all's'?
So think back to the first snake you owned. Did you not learn by asking?
Carol
Alot of people do not pay attention, they will just hit the new thread button, and ask a question that has been asked a million times, and alot of the times there is a thread on the same thing two threads down from there new one..

The search tab on this site is a wonderful thing, i say try it out before asking a question, you may get more than you thought you would out of it, as there is 6000 members here now...

Snakes are not cats and dogs, and you do not house a cat and a dog in a 4 foot cage do you? Big difference here. Everyone thinks, oh my snakes are so happy together, they like being together, blah, blah, blah. HOW DO YOU KNOW???? Are you Dr.Doolittle?? Do they smile at you and say they are happy...

Yes i asked alot of questions when i had my first snake, but i recieved alot of bad answers too.. This was before i ever found this site. Once i found this site and a few others it was smooth sailing..
And i also learned by reading books, and other information too that 2 snakes should not be housed together unless for breeding purposes, its only common sense IMO...

Before you start getting into these or any other animal for that matter, DO THE RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-14-04, 09:44 AM   #81
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Honestly, the thread is just sick. Many of you should be ashamed of yourself and your conduct, especially those of you who don't have a lot of snake experience coming off as some sort of Snake Guru. I applaud the non-believers who asked for proof in a civil way non accusatory way.

A little research would have yielded you these links. A much more plausible explaination.

http://www.rnw.nl/science/html/030224snake.html

http://www.king snake.com/aho/pdf/menu3/groot2003.pdf

http://home.pcisys.net/~dlblanc/Parthenogenesis.html

Gooper, unfortunately, when you make "outlandish' claims, people will jump down your throat especially without proof and especially b/c what "proof" you do have, isn't not that easily accessible. I think the above links will explain what happened with your burmese. Still remarkable nonetheless. However, with the deformed babies, I recommend you end their suffering.
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Old 08-14-04, 10:07 AM   #82
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Thank you Katt!
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Old 08-14-04, 10:38 AM   #83
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Good post Katt. I asked for proof, but not with out being critical of the whole husbandry issue as well, I see nothing wrong with that. Criticism with out attack is possible. I also challenged them to prove me wrong as well. However, from my first post all the way to this post I still suspect that all of this is the work of a troll. If I am proven wrong, great, I'll be the first to offer up an apology. For the record I said they were ignorant of snake husbandry, not ignorant in general. I see this thread turning away from a boa/python breeding question to that of a spontaneous birth caused only by the python it's self. Now that is something I can entertain and follow with some skepticism but with a far great open mind then to that of a claim of a boa/python pairing. If in fact there was no second python the fact that they are all albino is very interesting. Imagine an albino snake that can reproduce all by its self and produce nothing but albinos! If that were the case even I would want to keep a burm.
Finally I think it is unfortunate that if this is real they didn't start doing research sooner on how to incubate the eggs. So many more would have survived. Regardless of my criticism and skepticisms they have nowhere to go but up from here.
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Old 08-14-04, 10:39 AM   #84
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I do not see why people were bashing on the fact that a burmes and a boa will have copulated.... People do it with cornsnakes and kingsnakes and milksnakes....

If it did happen it was not intentionnaly.

Hopefully there will be a dna test done on it to find out what really happened.

As for the rest of the posts, well it's typical for this webcite to act in this way, always has been and prob will always be...
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Old 08-14-04, 10:48 AM   #85
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When I find a place to do the DNA/Chromosome/whatever testing that needs to be done, I will let you know. Since "virgin birth" seems more likely (while none of the options seem likely ) I will keep you updated, in my original post, that outlandish thought of the two breeding made more sense than an immaculate conception, that never crossed my mind ). THank you again to those who have helped me start to try figure this out and thank you to those who have privately said they will help me with the babies.
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Old 08-14-04, 10:49 AM   #86
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Originally posted by PuNkuPoNAsTAR
Two snakes aren't a dog and a cat, snakes are solitary animals....these snakes are from different ends of the earth with different requirements also, it's impossible to provide perfect husbandry for BOTH snakes.
Frankly I think its a perfect annology. Many cats are solitary animals. Felis and Canis don't cohabitat in the wild. Dog gets mad at cat and chases it around the house is the cat stressed...Ya. Ever heard the expression the expression "fight like cats and dogs"? The species even fight amongst themsleves. But people keep them together all the time. Can they live together for years with out a major incident sure. Should they live together, I don't know but probably not.

As far as not being able to provide perfect husbandy. How many people here actually provide PERFECT husbandry. I wouldn't rubbermaids/wooden boxes and newspaper perfect husbandry but the snakes seem content trive and reproduce in these conditions. I keep my snakes this way so its not a comment on the general husbandry around here just the perfection of it(prefectly efficient) As far as meeting thier needs goes except for the whole solitary issue there is enough leeway in any caresheet I've read to meet the needs of both snakes in the same enclosure.

As far as calling this persons boyfriend a moron or saying the know nothing about snakes thats a little ignorant and over the top. If he knew absolutly nothing about snakes then they would be dead. But they could probably use some helpful infromation. By my count they achieved quite a bit better than a 10% hatch rate with maternal incubation. Where did you get those numbers? Maybe you should save the smack down retoric for Favelle (he can handle it) and easy the new members into it.

Sorry for the rant but heavy handed criticism and ignorance isn't good for the site or contributing new members. It kinda turns people off and keeps them from comming back and actually learning what they should be doing(I dont claim never to have been rude hehe just ask jen or marisa...sorry. But I try to check myself now before I hit the subit reply button)

hehe slow day at work

also as far as the 6000 members goes I wonder what that would drop to if they cleaned out the database of members who haven't visited in the last 6 months or even year.

Last edited by Derrick; 08-14-04 at 10:53 AM..
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Old 08-14-04, 11:01 AM   #87
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THank you, I have contacted a couple universities in the area and a friend who works in labs that may know someone we can call, we hope to hear back soon... THANKS!
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Old 08-14-04, 11:01 AM   #88
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People do it with cornsnakes and kingsnakes and milksnakes....
Those snakes all lay eggs and very closely related and often share the same habbitates. Colombian boas and burms live on opposite sides of the planet and have different reproductive systems. Boa have live birth and pythons lay eggs. So before being critical of the sceptics, understand why they are being sceptics.
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Old 08-14-04, 11:01 AM   #89
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Great info Katt! I would also end the suffering of the deformed babies.

Maybe you could contact the people mentioned in the articles?

Also, you could get more informed on egg incubation and husbandry and maybe you will get another clutch next year from parthenogenesis and be more prepared. There are many threads on how to construct an incubator and if you have any questions just ask. I will be happy to help!
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Old 08-14-04, 11:15 AM   #90
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I actually saw the Colorado Herpetological Society in one of the articals, so I contact the one in my state too... we shall see. THANKS!
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