Please Help - Cat Bullying

[Abraxxos]

Originally Posted by Abraxxos

"I will admit, I do not know anything about training cats;..."-Dog Trainer

"I already stated that I do not train cats. I am just offering you to allow you to understand my training methods with dogs because you felt so inclined to shout that it was abuse, when it is not even remotely.

And you are contradicting yourself, repeatedly." -Dog Trainer

It is difficult to train a cat. I know. I've done it. However a cat, especially one being bullied can be trained to go to another room. You can't be lax on training though. You can't stop at oh he finally figured out the trick. You have to be consistent and monitor everything. I know. I had several cats growing up. I had a young male black cat named Howler who had been with us for a while before we brought home Daisy a 13 year old rescue. Daisy decided our household was a matriarchy and didn't like Howler whom had been the previous holder of dominance/power in the home. I trained him that my room was a place to go to when he was annoyed or Daisy got near him. Daisy was trained never to go into my room. Problem solved. Just because something is difficult does not mean that it is impossible.

[Terranaut]

I will not get into this one but just so we aren't all talking out our butts.....because this is way out of control. The training collar is nothing. I tried one at Rens much to the dismay of my wife ...it was painless even on the highest setting. You felt it but a 9volt battery on the tongue is about the same or just slightly less.
Smacking your child is not abuse. Hitting your child is. If you don't see a difference I am sorry but honestly some of the best lessons I ever had in life ended with a smack and I would not change the past if I could.
As far as positive renforcement...lets give rapists a hooker when they don't go out and rape a woman or maybe we can buy people oil changes for not speeding or maybe give people who pay their taxes a free movie night....give me a break. You must as both a parent and a trainer use both methods. One is useless without the other so this entire argument is like arguing you don't need peanut butter or chocolate in your Rese's cup.
End it and move on

[Abraxxos]

"Thank you for being insulting whilst I am trying to converse with you, it is appreciated.
That does not at all answer the questions that had been offered to you as a person who is trying to allow your opinion and training methods to be thoroughly heard.

I was being genuine in wanting to know how you would handle that. Instead you which to attempt to insult the one person trying to actually hear you out.

Have a lovely day, if you care to answer the questions offered so that I may learn what it is you would do in those circumstances, please make it known to my friend, Abraxxos.

I am leaving you with your rude bias now." -Dog Trainer

Wow she was actually trying to help you. Good job Formica. Good job. The point is to show each other. To teach and to learn. She wasn't insulting you. She was trying to teach you. To show you something you obviously know nothing about. We were talking to you about the differences and the methods. You however only made effort to tell us solely that we are wrong and trying to emit that holier than thou you are wrong in more ways than you know vibe and completely ignore everything. We aren't trying to change facts. AGAIN. We are not talking about shock collars. You are talking about shock collars. We are not. Why are you so thick skulled you can't understand this? We are trying to educate you. You won't read it because you know you are wrong. End of story. Sorry there's no other way to put it. That's the only logical reason one would not read something when supposedly they're trying to learn and understand. We read everything you said however you, for whatever reason cannot extend this same courtesy. Well done in remaining ignorant.

[Abraxxos]

"PS- Thank you Terranaut" -Dog Trainer

[Abraxxos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VMXf7NRa2o If nothing else watch this video. Words can only say so much. The only proof needed is the type not that you read but you see for yourself.

[formica]

are you posting messages from someone else in your posts?

you cannot expect someone to listen to you by being patronizing, which is what you where doing, and you got exactly the same rude reaction back. not going to go over any more of this, you have your opinion on the subject, i have mine.





Terranaut - I would draw your attention to Norway, they operate a very diffrent judicial system to the UK, Canada and US, here in the UK we have a reoffending rate of 75% within 18months, both the US and Canada have reoffending rates of 70%.

in Norway, they have <30% reoffending rate, they operate a completly diffrent system, they rehabilitate rather than punish, and with crimes like Rape, then psychiatry/psychology is used - the numbers speak for themselves really, we can punish for short term release of (justifiable) anger, but it doesnt serve society, the victims or the perpetrator in any real positive sense. couldnt find the original research on it, but heres a newspaper artical which covers most of it: The Norwegian prison where inmates are treated like people | Society | The Guardian

Negative reinforcement is a short term solution which aggrevates problems in the long term

[smy_749]

I didn't read the whole thread, and thats a pretty cool system in norway, but are you guys now comparing humans to cats and dogs?

[formica]

Originally Posted by smy_749

I didn't read the whole thread, and thats a pretty cool system in norway, but are you guys now comparing humans to cats and dogs?

isnt it fascinating, and very unique, i hope it catches on around the world, imagine what their society will be like in 20, 50, 100 years time if they keep on the same path! exciting prospect imo

there is separate research into animals which shows very similar principals when training animals and teaching humans, obviously with more complex communication there are significant differences, but the aspects of positive and negative reinforcement are surprisingly similar. but the human bit is just the usual internet tangent within a tangent lol

[Abraxxos]

Originally Posted by formica

are you posting messages from someone else in your posts?

you cannot expect someone to listen to you by being patronizing, which is what you where doing, and you got exactly the same rude reaction back. not going to go over any more of this, you have your opinion on the subject, i have mine.

Negative reinforcement is a short term solution which aggrevates problems in the long term

You're seriously just now figuring this out? Seriously? You claim to know the english language yet you missed the quotation marks? And the fact I was posting that YES it was said by a different person? Yes. Any thing at all from those messages in quotations are from a friend of mine who was sitting right here next to me. She is a professional dog trainer. She went to a very well known dog training school for this job. She does it for a living. Maybe if you had actually read what was being posted instead of ignoring every last thing you wouldn't be so ignorant to the situation.

You've obviously never used or experienced e-collars or dogs whom have been properly trained with e-collars making everything you have said extremely prejudiced and nothing but opinion and thus invalid in this conversation. Again one of the most popular and effective systems here and it uses e-collars (again which isn't negative reinforcement because it isn't painful because it isn't shocking... but you're too ignorant to read and learn this ~shrugs~). Full complete off leash training filled with any and every distraction and basic training for dogs with (including but not limited to) anxiety, aggression etc. and the training sticks even after the collar has been removed. If you'd watch the video provided, you'd know this and understand this but again... You are being ignorant continuing to invalid what you say.

[formica]

Originally Posted by Abraxxos

blah blah blah blah

that fact that you consistently have to resort to rudeness invalidates your posts, which I really couldn't be bothered to read after the first few.

[Abraxxos]

It's hard to respond any other way to idiocy. When you are so ignorant you absolutely refuse to listen and insult us what do you honestly expect? Calling you ignorant isn't being mean, it's being truthful. Sorry but not sorry. If you don't like the truth maybe you should change.

Anyways OP: E-collars aren't shock collars and are painless. You can easily find a very successful program/guide to help you. Best of luck.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by Abraxxos

It's hard to respond any other way to idiocy. When you are so ignorant you absolutely refuse to listen and insult us what do you honestly expect? Calling you ignorant isn't being mean, it's being truthful. Sorry but not sorry. If you don't like the truth maybe you should change.

Anyways OP: E-collars aren't shock collars and are painless. You can easily find a very successful program/guide to help you. Best of luck.

I like you.

[formica]

Originally Posted by Abraxxos

It's hard to respond any other way to idiocy. When you are so ignorant you absolutely refuse to listen and insult us what do you honestly expect? Calling you ignorant isn't being mean, it's being truthful. Sorry but not sorry. If you don't like the truth maybe you should change.

Anyways OP: E-collars aren't shock collars and are painless. You can easily find a very successful program/guide to help you. Best of luck.

how am i ignorant? I am succesfully using positive reinforcement, and several other people have piped up on this thread saying they also use it successfully - and we have all pointed out the diffrence between animals that have had each technique used, ie the outcomes are far better, we are not relying on second hand information, and worse still a sales pitch from a company trying to sell a piece of crap to you

funny how you refuse to show me these non painful electric shock collars eh if they didnt shock they would be utterly pointless, because they would do nothing more than a trainer can do using their mouth, or a whistle, or their fingers to click - but if you want to spend your hard earned cash on a piece of crap to do it for you. go for it - but dont bring your attitude to me about it - I do not believe they are not painful for a cat, and I have no intention of trying one, if it wasnt painful it would be a complete waste of money anyway, negative reinforcement or not!

this is the last I have to say on the matter, its been tedious.

[Abraxxos]

Originally Posted by formica

how am i ignorant? I am succesfully using positive reinforcement, and several other people have piped up on this thread saying they also use it successfully - and we have all pointed out the diffrence between animals that have had each technique used, ie the outcomes are far better, we are not relying on second hand information, and worse still a sales pitch from a company trying to sell a piece of crap to you

funny how you refuse to show me these non painful electric shock collars eh if they didnt shock they would be utterly pointless, because they would do nothing more than a trainer can do using their mouth, or a whistle, or their fingers to click - but if you want to spend your hard earned cash on a piece of crap to do it for you. go for it - but dont bring your attitude to me about it - I do not believe they are not painful for a cat, and I have no intention of trying one, if it wasnt painful it would be a complete waste of money anyway, negative reinforcement or not!

this is the last I have to say on the matter, its been tedious.

Be gone, annoyance. We don't want you to continue speaking. Why should I show you anything you want me to show you when you can't answer a simple question. If your precious continuous singular positive reinforcement is so amazing and great... answer the running question. But you won't. Because you can't. Because there is no way to train a dog to not run with positive reinforcement alone.

That wasn't a sales pitch but my friend. I don't have a dog she is trying to train and isn't part of the over all company. So maybe before you assume crap, like you have this ENTIRE THREAD, you should really think about what you're saying because assumptions make a bigger *** out of you than it does out of me. It isn't second hand advice. It was direct. It was her typing on my computer, direct quotes, you bigot.

How are you being ignorant? Because we were explaining to you exactly how it works. Exactly how it isn't painful. Explaining to you that e-collar doesn't mean elizabethan or electric but you are so filly with stupidity and stuck in your ways that you can't take five minutes to stop and read something that is unbiased and LEARN. THAT is why you are ignorant. The second somebody spoke about e-collars, you flipped out and insulted them. You immediately assumed they were talking about a shock collar. Immediately assumed that Nataku had to hate cats in order to think it was okay. I love cats. I think it's okay. Because it is. I love dogs. I think it's okay. Because it is. YOU cannot tell me differently because YOU have no bloody clue what the hell you are talking about.

And THEN when Amadeus stopped to point out that an electrical current isn't dangerous because HELLO your entire body runs off of electricity, you completely refused to listen. Grab a mini einstein collar, put it on your palm and feel it. Then and only then when you post a video of it, will I consider what you say to matter at all. Because if you want to talk about second hand information, honey, you're using it. Because you have no experience. So if you think it's hurting them, where are you getting your information. OBVIOUSLY not from your own dealings. So put up or shut up and stop being a hypocrite.

[Abraxxos]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I like you.

I like you too especially because you schooled her in her own language.