Questions from a newbie

[jowens]

Maiden Canada, could you please explain how I just started an argument?

I did not say that aquariums are better than Rubbermaids, or vice versa. I have, in my own experience, had glass terrariums that kept both heat and humidity. Maybe Vengeance can, too.

[daver676]

Originally posted by maiden_canada
didn't really mean an arguement, just something that alot of people will disagree with hehe, but many people have proven that rubbermaids hold humidity alot better then aquariums, also if you put a danmp towl on the top you have to dampen it 1-2times a day, atleast i had to

Yes, I should have mentioned. Keeping a glass tank at the proper humidity levels will require more maintenence. However, I usually only have to re-wet the towel every other day. The tinfoil not only helps hold in some of that humidity, but also keeps the towel damper, longer. I never have to mist until shed time. My humidity usually hovers around 60%.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yes, I should have mentioned. Keeping a glass tank at the proper humidity levels will require more maintenence.

And that's the key. If someone is BRAND new at this snake-keeping thing, wouldn't it be in his best interest to have the least amount of problems that could occur? It can be done. Of course it can. But wouldn't his 1st snake-keeping experience be better enjoyed without the extra work involved in micky-mousing a fish-cage setup? Maybe not. Oh well. All you can do is give advice. And if people already have their minds made up, no matter how many times you beat them over the head with advice, they just won't take it.

On to more important things..........

[Slannesh]

I always get a kick out of people claiming that rubbermaids are vastly superior to glass aquariums when it comes to humidity. Both are water tight, so the only place to go is up and out for any water in the enclosure. The only reason that glass aquariums tend to lose more water is because they have open tops and tend to have more airflow. Of course the humitity will be lower when the air is being changed in the tank 100 times as often and it gets even worse in places with naturally low humidity levels. If you put an airtight lid on your acquarium and just punched holes in it like you do your vaunted rubbermaids the humidity would be so close it would be near indistinguishable.

I think Rubbermaids are great for breeding and for people with large collections and limited space... but I do like to give my herps more room than most people while offering a selection of hides at different temps and humidities and let the snakes/lizards decide what they like. Yeah it costs more but I think it looks better and my herps all seem to be perfectly secure and aside from Shiva who occasionally likes 'this' particular hide in 'that' particular spot all seems to work well.

Yes with an open wire mesh it's a pain keeping any humidity in the air especially where i'm from (Northern Alberta) But the glass top on Shiva's tank seems to do just fine for keeping in what it's supposed to.

Don't believe me? Put a mesh top on your Rubbermaid for a day and watch the humidity plummet.

I personally think that if he's willing to put in a touch of extra work making a more humidity friendly top and is offereing several hides that the 50 gallon tank is perfectly fine for keeping a ball python in.

Which at the end of the day is a lot more helpful for the guy than calling him names and the multiple insinuations that he's stupid for wanting to do it a way that's different from what happens to be popular at the time.

That being said, in my climate I do have humidity problems since at this time of the year it tends to be around 10% or lower ambient unless it's actually snowing at the time. Hell on human skin is the Edmontonian winter and it can't be a lot better for your herps. But I'm quite sure the humitity would not be signifigantly better in a rubbermaid of the same volume under the same conditions.

[maiden_canada]

a 50gallon isnt fine for keeping a small ball in, we already discussed this and everyone smart agreed.

[Jeff_Favelle]

And the reason that Rubbermaids hold humidity better is because of SIDE VENTILATION. If you have a wide-open top, all the air-born water droplets (humidity) goes buh-bye. Not so with holes inside the Rubbermaid.

But again, this can only be repeated so many times before it just becomes annoying. Right gents? (and ladies).

[maiden_canada]

good point jeff, i didn't think of that...i learn something new every day

[Slannesh]

Isn't that what I just said?

Water sublimates, meaning it's now airborne water vapor, if side holes are the only thing it can go though it will... much less so than straight up if your whole top is open. This is all like grade 8 science as far as I can remember (it's been more than a few years) But before the post from Jeff a few above this one I didn't see anyone that bothered to tell him WHY that rubbermaids tend to hold humidity better. They just attacked him for daring to use an aquarium and I saw one post tell him that if he couldn't be bothered to get proper housing for the snake not to get one at all... a 50 gallon aquarium is a perfectly suitable home for a Ball Python with a few very simple modifacations

[maiden_canada]

slannesh, you just admitted rubbermaids hold humidity better then aquariums BECAUSE aquariums need to have the venitilation in the top, all the humidity just goes out. but rubbermaids have holes int eh sides for ventilation. its fairly obvious rubbermaids are much better then aquariums for holding humidity and heat, the only downside is they're not pretty. i sure hope the creator of this thread takes people's advice and gets a rubbermaid.

[Slannesh]

I'll say it slow and use small words so you can understand Maiden.

Make a top with holes near the edges and on an angle. Of course if you have 10 000 holes in the lid it won't hold humidity worth crap. But Diffusion does what it likes. From an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration putting holes in the sides of the rubbermaid may slow the process slightly. But the same # of holes in the top in the correct places, cut at an angle, should have pretty much the same effect

I really hope the creator of this thread doesn't take away from it that many of us seem to like to belittle and crap all over perfectly valid ideas over some juvenile "i know more than you" pissing contest over the stupidest things again and again. If you have useful information to share with someone do so. Leave the superiority complex and attitude out of it, cause honestly even if you're right you're still going to come off as a sanctimonius a-hole.

Some food for thought that i'm sure you're unlikely to sample.


To the guy who started this thread with some perfectly valid quiestions, if my instructions on how to make a decent lid were unclear just send me an email and i'll elaborate.

Slannesh.

[maiden_canada]

just give it up. tell him to get a rubbermaid. i doubt he is even paying attention to the thread anymore and just uses his 50gallon aquarium and covers 3/4 the lid. a rubbermaid would be much better, maybe if he figured out how to make a 15gallon hold humidity that would be OK.

[GotBalls?]

oh come on maiden_canada.. that's a bit of a low blow...just because someone's opinion is different doesn't mean they are dumb. If other people have made things work without following the crowd, then obviously they are alot more dedicated and smarter than you think. Yeah it's the simple way to do what everyone else does, but some people enjoy a challenge and making thier ideas work.

I'm not usually one of those people, but I'm not going to call someone dumb because they are that type of person.

I agree with Jeff on the fact that for someone's first snake keeping expereince, it would best to do what his most widely recommended and will be the easiest and safest way to do things, to make the experience pleasant for both snake and human, but for the people who are more experienced and know what is needed to keep a snake happy and healthy, and are familiar with the extra work it will take to do things a little more imaginatively, I think it is great if they can think of ways to keep the snake that are able to cater to snake and human equally.

Nicole

[Jeff_Favelle]

Isn't that what I just said?

I went away for dinner before clicking "submit post" and then when I finally did an hour later, you had already posted it. Is that ok? Or would you like me to delete my post????

[Jeff_Favelle]

but for the people who are more experienced and know what is needed to keep a snake happy and healthy, and are familiar with the extra work it will take to do things a little more imaginatively, I think it is great if they can think of ways to keep the snake that are able to cater to snake and human equally.

Exactly Nicole. It can totally be done, no question. I did it 10 years ago. So did a TON of people, and some people still do. Its just a matter of being a 1st time snake owner, why would you want a major strike AGAINST your husbandry before you even get the snake?? I know I would have had MUCH MUCH more success if someone just told me to use Rubbermaids for my baby Ball Pythons. Oh well, live and learn. Hopefully the Ball Python will......live.

Cheers all. Can we move on? Perhaps Vengeance has some more pertinent caging questions? Like decor? Substrate? Temps? What kind of hides? etc etc etc. Let's keep the "ball rolling" (pun intended) and not get bogged down on one tiny thing. The world of reptile keeping is as vast and wonderful as we make it. So let's not make it narrow and boring.

[marisa]

O.k. I get all the why tanks can hold humidity, but does this have anything to do with a rubbermaid having both humidity holding properties AND cross (=good) ventilation? Maybe for BP's ventilation is not as needed, but most aboreal snake keepers wouldn't dare keep an animal with such high ventilation requirements in a tank. Even for my BP the air gets rank in tanks.

Again this is just what I have personally tried and experienced using both a tank and rubbermaid. The choice was obvious for me. BTW, my rubbermaids provide both a gradient and space as all are far larger in useable snake space than any tank i have found. IMHO!

Marisa