Herps you don't think should be kept as pets?

[marvelfreak]

Ok i see your all starting to talk about me.(god) Let just keep my name out of this or i'll strike you all down with lighting. lol

[SSSSnakes]

As per the rulers of this forum, I no longer can continue this discussion. As I said it is now only one sided were I can not defend what I believe. The Mods need to lock this thread.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Heres my stand...
1. If you are old enough to go to war for your country...you can keep any snake/reptile you see fit.

Philosophically, I agree, brother...but legally, it ain't so. Find the law that makes your statement true, and I'll eat my hat.

2. You can argue that they can escape and bite someone...well a car can "escape" and run you over everytime you walk outside.

False. A car [or a gun for that matter] is an inanimate object, and cannot "spring" to life and escape the confines of your garage [or gun case] when you are away. A reptile [or a dog or any other animal] is a living thing, and it has a mind of its own & can always seek escape/test boundaries; thus, it is the keeper's responsibility to ensure it is confined properly.

There is far more dangerous things out there than a snake or lizard. Whats the difference when in almost every state there is venomous snakes in the wild? You can still get bit.

I agree totally. But there is a difference in 1.) venomous snakes in the wild, (or any other wild animal), which we do not have control over, and 2.) animals that are intentionally kept in captivity, which we DO have control over.

You can (within reasonable bounds) control what your dog does: you keep him confined in a secure fence, or him secured by a proper run or chain (if your laws allow such). If he gets loose, you are liable. It is no different for livestock, and it should be no different for exotic animals, including reptiles, especially giant constrictors. The argument that wildlife could or could not present a higher risk to public safety is a weak one, because that is an uncontrollable variable.

Its all about our government controlling us and making money on it in the process.

I also agree. In the same token, most of conservation efforts are funded by govt entities, mainly state-level fish & game agencies sourced mostly by hunting & fishing licenses, as well as trapping permits, hunter education courses, etc. So it can be a matter of perspective, depending on where you live.

man has dominion over all creatures of the Earth. You can do as you see fit.

[looks at the entire planet, including the current state of this country] and we're doing a marvelous job of that, aren't we?

[Georgia]

Im sorry for derailing a thread... Just my "opinion".

[Georgia]

But also dogs nd cats.send more people to the E.R and kill more people in 1 year than ALL reptile attacks. So should all dogs and cats be on a permit system and regulated? Tell me when the last pack of snakes mauled someone to death...

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Georgia

But also dogs nd cats.send more people to the E.R and kill more people in 1 year than ALL reptile attacks. So should all dogs and cats be on a permit system and regulated? Tell me when the last pack of snakes mauled someone to death...

Amen Brother

[StudentoReptile]

Im sorry for derailing a thread... Just my "opinion".

Nothing to apologize for. You had an opinion and spoke up.

I for one, do not feel you derailed the thread, because you brought up some interesting points that many people think about. I merely countered what the difference between wild nature and captive animals was.

Originally Posted by Georgia

But also dogs nd cats.send more people to the E.R and kill more people in 1 year than ALL reptile attacks. So should all dogs and cats be on a permit system and regulated?

I work as an animal control officer, and again, I'm with you. There is a lot of people in this world [lots of America near the very top of that list] who have no business owning any kind of pet period. I agree dogs definitely should be on a permit system as well, but no politician is going to touch it with a 39-ft-pole. Trust me, I wish they would. I wish they would implement a more strict system for to license dog breeders, and enforce everyone who is not to spay/neuter. But sadly I do not see it happening anytime soon.
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Again, we can sit here and talk about how much dogs and deer and vending machines are more dangerous to people than reptiles [Seriously, statistically, more people get killed by knocking over vending machines because it took their dollar - compared to snakes!], and we can point our fingers at the govt for taking away our freedoms, and we can deflect blame to HSUS for being anti-pet ownership and PETA for euthanizing more animals than they adopt out, and we can even gripe about USARK for not doing a good enough job for fighting for our "rights" to keep all our herps....and I'm not necessarily saying some of that is not accurate...BUT

But in the end, all we are doing is just trying to deflect blame to someone else, trying to take focus off ourselves, when in reality, most hobbyists still do not have the boons to admit that WE were the cause of all these problems and still are today. Maybe not every person is a complete scumbag or a flipper or one of those irresponsible neglectful twits who dumped a snake in the swamp, or didn't have a secure enough cage....but if all you do is go to shows, and buy/sell/trade herps, and just click "Like" whenever you see something cool on social media and never do any real research on a particular issue, you are part of this merry-go-round. I know because I was part of it, too, not so long ago. I got caught up in the same stuff and just believed whatever was told, and bred my mutations, and donated my money to USARK like a good little snake breeder because thats what everyone else did and by golly, I have a right to keep whatever I want, right? Well, it ain't quite that way. And the more folks buck up and realize that we are not innocent and that the blame-deflection game is not going to work, the better and more changes might be seen.

[StudentoReptile]

and I forgot to touch on this point last night, it came to me later...

I do not understand where this mentality comes from, but it simply is not true. Just because you pay taxes or served in the military does not make you exempt from abiding from the law as a private citizen. Period. I get this all the time as an ACO. Your dog runs loose, you receive a ticket, end of story. The fact that you "pay taxes" is irrelevant.

I know there are certain places that allow discounts & privileges to veterans and the military, but guess what? When you are off duty, you STILL have drive on the right side of the road & under the speed limit, you still got to abide by state hunting/game laws, and NO, you do not get keep whatever kind of animals you wish: lions, tigers, leopards, primates, giraffes, etc, or if the laws dictates, certain reptiles. I'm sorry, it ain't so. Believe me, trust me when I say I sincerely say that I appreciate all of you have or currently do serve to protect our country. I have a brother who currently serves in the Air Force, so I know. But it does not give him special privileges to keep tigers and bazookas in his spare time.

[Thorny]

Lets ignore the fact I am new.

I was browsing HSUS's website for negative snake propaganda and one of their arguments was that only 1% of reptiles are still with their original owner within a year of their initial purchase. Frankly, if true, that would not surprise me.

I think impulse buying does more harm to reptiles than anything else. If reptile sales at pet shops could be banned wouldn't things be better for both reptiles and those who keep them? Those who bought the reptile would have to be knowledgeable enough to go to a breeder or at least an expo and they would have to think about this for more than five minutes. The person they would be getting the animal from would likely actually know about its care and could actually answer any questions the buyer might have.

Currently we have people who want something cool buying iguanas and retics from pet shop employees who do not know proper care for these animals at triple the price they would from a breeder because they put less than 10 minutes of thought into it. The coolness wears off and the animal is left without a home, sick or dead from husbandry issues, or ends up being almost impossible to work with because they were never held as a juvenile.

Same is more or less true for dogs or cats. I would not be surprised if 50% of dogs have to be rehomed before reaching adulthood and no one is convincing me they put thought into buying a puppy at a pet store when they could have got one for half the price straight from the breeder.

I honestly have a thing for hots but I know I am not in a situation to take care of them. The private owners I have met are not as responsible as one would hope and most have been tagged at some point but to be fair they do know how to take care of them. I obviously do not want a lot of red tape between me and my dream of owning hots, if it is ever to be realized, but I would have a hard time objecting to a reasonable permitting process. I have no interest in the true giants but I respect their owners and am well aware that bans on the giants could put my hopes of keeping hots in jeopardy.

Maybe we could have a mandatory wait period for purchasing a pet like we have for guns and abortions?

As to things I do not think should be kept. The majority of diurnal lizards, turtles, and tortoises cannot be expected to have a full and healthy life by the average person who buys them. At least I know that a fair number of the idiots getting crocodilians and hots know exactly what they are in for.

[Georgia]

Technically, you can.own a Bazooka or Rocket Launcher, just not the rockets :-)

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree in regards to
all the restrictions and control of a citizens choice of snakes when the focus should be on
more pressing and immediate threats.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Technically, you can.own a Bazooka or Rocket Launcher, just not the rockets :-)

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree in regards to
all the restrictions and control of a citizens choice of snakes when the focus should be on
more pressing and immediate threats.

Yeah, I mean where do you draw the line? Is it okay to own a tiger or a chimpanzee?
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And what immediate threats are we talking about here? Gun control? Vehicle accidents? Drug trafficking? Terrorists?

What makes you think those threats are not being focused on? I'm just asking...

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Georgia

man has dominion over all creatures of the Earth. You can do as you see fit.

That is an unsubstantiated assertion. Why does man have dominion over all creatures of the earth?

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

That is an unsubstantiated assertion. Why does man have dominion over all creatures of the earth?

GOD said. Genesis 1:26-28

[EL Ziggy]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

GOD said. Genesis 1:26-28

To each his own brother. Your beliefs are YOUR truth, not everyone's. You're totally entitled to believe whatever you want but not always to do whatever you want, and you definitely can't impose those beliefs on others.

[Sublimeballs]

Originally Posted by Georgia

To address your question...man has dominion over all creatures of the Earth. You can do as you see fit.

Umm....no, no creature is more or less important then any other. And this mind set is what is killing the earth.

Who cares about the oceans or rainforest....I've got opposeable thumbs.