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03-11-14, 12:54 PM
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#61
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slainte mhath
Join Date: Nov-2009
Location: kelty,fife
Age: 58
Posts: 8,509
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
imo snakes have instincts nothing more....
when did you last see your snake wagging it's tail to greet you  
cheers shaun
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ALWAYS judge a person by the way they treat someone who can be of NO POSSIBLE USE TO THEM !
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03-11-14, 12:56 PM
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#62
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,481
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunyboy
imo snakes have instincts nothing more....
when did you last see your snake wagging it's tail to greet you
cheers shaun |
I've seen plenty of snakes rear up hoping to get some dinner....which is pretty much the same thing as a dog wagging its tail hoping for something to eat 
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03-11-14, 03:27 PM
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#63
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Member
Join Date: Oct-2005
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 58
Posts: 1,714
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by formica
I've seen plenty of snakes rear up hoping to get some dinner....which is pretty much the same thing as a dog wagging its tail hoping for something to eat |
Are you kidding me?
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03-11-14, 03:32 PM
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#64
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queen of the Chicken Dance
Join Date: Aug-2011
Location: Halifax, MA
Posts: 3,528
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunyboy
imo snakes have instincts nothing more....
when did you last see your snake wagging it's tail to greet you
cheers shaun |
Not to greet you, but my Kenyans will routinely wag their tails during breeding season to let their mates know they're interested
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03-11-14, 03:42 PM
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#65
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,481
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDT
Are you kidding me?
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partly yes (as the tounge poke smiley indicated), however, do you think a dog would ''love'' its owner if it didn't get fed by them?
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03-11-14, 04:04 PM
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#66
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Forum Moderator
Join Date: Nov-2002
Location: Toronto
Age: 39
Posts: 16,977
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by formica
partly yes (as the tounge poke smiley indicated), however, do you think a dog would ''love'' its owner if it didn't get fed by them?
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Short answer...yes.
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03-11-14, 04:54 PM
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#67
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Location: London UK
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_S
Short answer...yes.
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elaborating on that would lead to a more interesting discussion
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03-11-14, 05:00 PM
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#68
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Forum Moderator
Join Date: Nov-2002
Location: Toronto
Age: 39
Posts: 16,977
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by formica
elaborating on that would lead to a more interesting discussion
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Sure...
It has been found many many times that when a dog's owner has died in the home/whatever that the dog will not leave the side of the body. They do not consume the body either and their are cases where the dog has starved to death instead of eating the body.
This shows me that dogs will continue to love their owner even if they aren't fed.
Further, many cases of dogs being abused(starvation and other methods) and yet that same animal still wags their tail to greet that person because no matter what had happened.
To me that shows love far beyond just feeding them.
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03-11-14, 05:33 PM
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#69
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,481
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_S
Sure...
It has been found many many times that when a dog's owner has died in the home/whatever that the dog will not leave the side of the body. They do not consume the body either and their are cases where the dog has starved to death instead of eating the body.
This shows me that dogs will continue to love their owner even if they aren't fed.
Further, many cases of dogs being abused(starvation and other methods) and yet that same animal still wags their tail to greet that person because no matter what had happened.
To me that shows love far beyond just feeding them.
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this is true, and I wouldnt dispute that a dog which has a bond with its owner, will continue to have that bond after the owner dies
that said, some dogs have been known to eat their owners once they have died. but thats probably exceptional, and not really my point
what about before the dog has a bond with the owner? how and why does that bond get formed? because the dog falls in love? or is it something far more basic...like, a food source? a source of protection? is companionship between a man and a dog really a selfless love affair? or is it actually something more practical.
I'm inclined to believe that it is practical, and the bond becomes stronger as the years go by, and then we dress it up with silly human concepts
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03-11-14, 05:37 PM
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#70
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Posts: 4,858
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Thing thing is, humans and dogs are social animals. Snakes are solitary. They do not form bonds like humans and dogs do.
Put a human or a dog on an island alone for 15 years...they'll go crazy. Put a snake on an island alone for 15 years...it'll be doing great. Probably prefers solitude.
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03-12-14, 12:36 PM
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#71
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slainte mhath
Join Date: Nov-2009
Location: kelty,fife
Age: 58
Posts: 8,509
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by formica
I've seen plenty of snakes rear up hoping to get some dinner....which is pretty much the same thing as a dog wagging its tail hoping for something to eat |
if a snake was rearing up say at the scent of prey defrosting.....
its instinct...
looking/hunting for prey,it's what they've done for millions of years
the need to eat is instinct not emotion imo mate
cheers shaun
__________________
ALWAYS judge a person by the way they treat someone who can be of NO POSSIBLE USE TO THEM !
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03-12-14, 12:39 PM
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#72
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slainte mhath
Join Date: Nov-2009
Location: kelty,fife
Age: 58
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK SandBoas
Not to greet you, but my Kenyans will routinely wag their tails during breeding season to let their mates know they're interested |
tell me a male of any species that wouldn't do what it takes to get a female breeding pal
cheers shaun 
__________________
ALWAYS judge a person by the way they treat someone who can be of NO POSSIBLE USE TO THEM !
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03-12-14, 03:30 PM
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#73
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slainte mhath
Join Date: Nov-2009
Location: kelty,fife
Age: 58
Posts: 8,509
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by formica
Dopamine - reward based learning, AKA pleasure
Seratonin - strongly associated with eating well, AKA contentment/happyness
Adrenaline - fight or flight response, AKA fear
all are found in reptiles.
the only emotional connections that are different, are those between mates and young - the only reason that humans form close emotional ties with mates and young, is because our babies are utterly useless at looking after themselves
....we can turn that into some complex abstract idea if we want, and claim that humans are more emotional complex, but, all of that comes from our intelligence, not our emotional capacity
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a humans child falls into a raging river....
our intelligence would say...don't dive in to save your child as you will end up dead
our emotions is what makes us jump into said raging river,regardless of the fact we will most likely die
same applies to rushing into a burning building for a family member,its emotion that drives that decision,NOT intelligence...
intelligence would tell us to wait for the fire brigade
we are emotionally more complex imo mate...
to the point we would sacrafice our own lives for tha sake of our emotions...
we would gladly push our child out the path of a speeding car,taking the hit ourselves,knowing we will end up dead
cheers shaun
__________________
ALWAYS judge a person by the way they treat someone who can be of NO POSSIBLE USE TO THEM !
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03-13-14, 02:58 AM
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#74
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,481
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunyboy
if a snake was rearing up say at the scent of prey defrosting.....
its instinct...
looking/hunting for prey,it's what they've done for millions of years
the need to eat is instinct not emotion imo mate
cheers shaun |
not quite
the need to eat, causes mental (emotional) and physical discomfort, AKA hunger
seeing food, causes a chemical response (adrenaline - improves focus) which leads to a physical response and highly alert state, AKA excitment (emotional)
catching the food, causes a learning response (dopamine is released as part of the reward based learning system all animals have) AKA pleasure
eating the food, causes a physical and chemical reaction in the gut, which spreads thru the blood into the body (Seratonin is releasesed) AKA happyness
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunyboy
a humans child falls into a raging river....
our intelligence would say...don't dive in to save your child as you will end up dead
our emotions is what makes us jump into said raging river,regardless of the fact we will most likely die
same applies to rushing into a burning building for a family member,its emotion that drives that decision,NOT intelligence...
intelligence would tell us to wait for the fire brigade
we are emotionally more complex imo mate...
to the point we would sacrafice our own lives for tha sake of our emotions...
we would gladly push our child out the path of a speeding car,taking the hit ourselves,knowing we will end up dead
cheers shaun
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I would agree of course that humans have a broader range of behavoural responses to emotions and more complex relationships - but we MUST separate behaviors, instincts and emotions, they are not the same thing
Yes humans have a broader range of emotional behaviours (instincts) compared to a Leopard Gecko, but more complex? more advanced?
no imo not at all, we are more complex in our behaviors/instinctive reactions, but the emotions are simply chemical reactions, its how we react to those chemicals which is diffrent
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03-13-14, 12:37 PM
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#75
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slainte mhath
Join Date: Nov-2009
Location: kelty,fife
Age: 58
Posts: 8,509
Country:
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Re: Reptiles & Emotions
Quote:
Originally Posted by formica
i would agree of course that humans have a broader range of behavoural responses to emotions and more complex relationships - but we MUST separate behaviors, instincts and emotions, they are not the same thing
Yes humans have a broader range of emotional behaviours (instincts) compared to a Leopard Gecko, but more complex? more advanced?
no imo not at all, we are more complex in our behaviors/instinctive reactions, but the emotions are simply chemical reactions, its how we react to those chemicals which is diffrent
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imo it's not instinct that causes us to give our own life to save our child,its love which is an emotion,no matter how the chemical response takes place
instinct,is when your sitting in a pub/bar and you know it's all about to kick off into a bar fight,so you either leave the pub/bar or get ready to fight,before you say it,it's fight or flight,which is caused by a surge of Noradrenaline
talking about human emotions and reptiles or even dogs is a mute point,as we are the most complex and dangerous creatures on the planet mate
cheers shaun
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