how to get my humidity higher

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Chu'Wuti

How many snakes have you caught on a field herping expedition that were living in plastic containers?

None. How many have you caught living in glass tanks or wooden enclosures?

[GoodSmeagol]

Originally Posted by mykee

Chu:

So it's about you then?

Pets are symbiotic relationship with us.
We choose to take them into our care.
Not just to care for them, but to have them be enjoyed by us.
It is not only about the snake.
Some one chooses to take on the responsibility, and yes the snake should be cared for.
But if you are going to buy a pet, something you will interact with, this Symbiosis is important. For, if I put my snakes in tubs that I could not see them, sure they may be cared for, but not in a manner in which I want to own a pet.
A pet - Symbiotic with us, "the living together of unlike organisms".Which benifits both parties

An animal in your care - Living on its own for its benifit only.

You Mykee, have a bunch of Animals in your care.

I do not care for animals in my care. I care for PETS in my care.

If I do not see my pets on display, what is the purpose of careing for it.
Other then to keep it healthy...

Fish tanks do require some small modifications to provide proper ranges and gradients for Balls, as proved by many posters in this thread, FISH TANKS WORK FINE
I have 2 reptile display cages, They have a screen top, I place palastic shelf liner on the top with a 3inch hole in all corners.
I also open the cages at least once daily to interact with my PETS.

As described in another thread, my humidity was to low, I was going by breeders and advice gained in other places.
I decided to raise my levels to 75% during shed, 60% all other times.
This is far below your recomendations, however I do not care what you recommend, as said, you are an ***, and I do not take advice from jerks.

I bought at walmart a 40 dollar Warm Mist Humidifier. I raised the humidity in my room to 40%, with a daily mist and a large water bowl in each cage, the last 3 days my tanks have stayed above 60%.

No need for an expensive mister which would handle a single cage.
Ambient room temp is 75, cages raised to 80low,88high ambient, with ground surface between 80-95 grandiently.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by GoodSmeagol

I bought at walmart a 40 dollar Warm Mist Humidifier.

I can spend 10 bucks at wal mart and buy an appropriate cage that keeps humidity with a proper sized water dish (bought for 2 bucks)

I know Mykee can come off as "harsh" sometimes but he's not wrong. Why should we buy animals as pets and do all these little 'tricks' to get their husbandry correct when all you need to do is buy a better enclosure? Tanks are crap. End of story. There's plenty of options out there. Build your own with front viewing windows, buy a pre-made enclosure with large front viewing window. Best part about those options is they hold heat and humidity. All you do is spend a bit more on a nicer looking enclosure.

[GoodSmeagol]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I can spend 10 bucks at wal mart and buy an appropriate cage that keeps humidity with a proper sized water dish (bought for 2 bucks)

I know Mykee can come off as "harsh" sometimes but he's not wrong. Why should we buy animals as pets and do all these little 'tricks' to get their husbandry correct when all you need to do is buy a better enclosure? Tanks are crap. End of story. There's plenty of options out there. Build your own with front viewing windows, buy a pre-made enclosure with large front viewing window. Best part about those options is they hold heat and humidity. All you do is spend a bit more on a nicer looking enclosure.

Because at the end of the day, after we do all these little tricks to get the proper husbandry, the tank is more then suitable for Balls.

You spend 10 bucks on a tub.
I will fight that a TUB is the best enclosure.
Would you rather spend your life in a room with a window, or a frakkin prison cell with no window?
You treat your animals like criminals.

I will place this arguement.
We place humans in jail, when they break the law yes?
We place them in a small cell with a bed, and a toilet.
We feed them 3 regular meals through out the day.
ALL of their living requirements are provided.
Is that the best way for us to live?

NO we enjoy nice lives with freedom to explore, forrage, enjoy life.

I think putting a ball in a small tub that it may very well be comfortable in, is inhumain!
Treat the animals with respect, take proper care of them, allow them to live long fruitful lives.
Instead of a life of isolation.

Again,
All these tricks to make a Fishtank suitable.
No tricks and a cell block is suitable.

We, use alot of little fancy tricks to make OUR life easy, I simply provide the same for my pets. Hell even the damn pet is part of our 'tricks' to make life better.

I stand by my point that Mykee may have experience with large amounts of balls. But he is still a jerk.

And by the way, my fish tanks lay on their side, making the screen on its side. They are reptile/critter cages with sliding lockable lids.
I have 1 Fishtank this would not work for. It uses the same method of keeping in humidity as my Snake cages with a screened top, mostly covered with a few circulation holes.

[Smilts]

well as a prison guard i can say inmates have much more than that in your argument? Tank, tub there in the same sorta small invironment. I dont have a huge problem with tanks but it takes alot more work such as at least a custom plexiglass cover to make them work. Ifyou have time and are willing to do the extra work then great, but how many that say they will actually do and because of that how many reptiles live much worse than they have to.

[Aaron_S]

Tank vs Tub? You're comparing these to a prison? Do you not get the irony of your analogy? You are actually comparing keeping these animals in captivity in small enclosures to the wild. If you feel they need "space" then don't own any as it's a crime to take them out of the wild.

I'm sorry but snakes don't "enjoy life" as we do. How they enjoy life is to eat, sleep and procreate. Their life goal is to continue their species. That is it. Keeping a single animal as a "pet" is actually doing the species and it's intention on this earth a disservice.

Lastly, I suggested if you don't like tubs then there's more suitable reptile specific enclosures that be built or bought. Fish tanks are for fish.

[Kmef07]

ok so i will agree that the tanks are easier and if by them being easier then yes they are better but if you can achieve the same housing with a tank as you can a tub then they are equal in all respects that concern the animal. so if they are equal and one person prefers a prettier enclosure in which to show off thier animal then who cares. they are EQUAL as long as they do the same thing. no matter how hard it is in either to make them suitable.

[GoodSmeagol]

[quote=Aaron_S;545438]Tank vs Tub? You're comparing these to a prison? Do you not get the irony of your analogy? You are actually comparing keeping these animals in captivity in small enclosures to the wild. If you feel they need "space" then don't own any as it's a crime to take them out of the wild.

I'm sorry but snakes don't "enjoy life" as we do. How they enjoy life is to eat, sleep and procreate. Their life goal is to continue their species. That is it. Keeping a single animal as a "pet" is actually doing the species and it's intention on this earth a disservice.



I will quote good ol' Mykee to respond to

"She does, does she...
When did she tell you? Does she wag her tail every time you put here in her tank, or does she lick you? "

With a good this quote from Mykees earlier post

"She does, does she...
When did she tell you? Does she wag her tail every time you put here in her tank, or does she lick you? "

I believe a cage with a view is far superior to a CELL, I make the choice to buy a ball python, and I give it the best life I think it would want.

If you think a better life is in a 4 walled cage with nothing else but a little hide for it to go under, call it a bed.
Then go to spend a few days in a cell block, then a few days in a hospital bed with a nice view.
Tell me which is better, if you prefer the jail cell, I will bow to your feet as well.
Yes, I punish my snake because I put it in a cage, and not let it roam free in Africa.
But unlike you, I put my snake in the better of the 2 evils.
My temps are right, now, thanks to Mykees rant and my initiative do read further on humidity levels, my humidity is correct.
Now tell me again, why is a glass enclosure wrong? because its more difficult to to get to those temps and ranges? Now see I put the extra effort in, and now they will match within reason at least 50% of the ball python communities.
so the problem is.....?

[Chu'Wuti]

None. How many have you caught living in glass tanks or wooden enclosures?

None; I concede that point.

However, I have no interest in keeping the snake hidden in a plastic tub where I cannot see him 99% of the time. Nor am I interested in making it "easy" on myself or as cheap as possible by using a plastic tub.

I want to provide an enclosure that mimics the natural habitat for the creature in my care reasonably well while still ensuring that it is healthful for the animal. Even if it is still in captivity in a small space. By doing so, my husband and I can sit on our couch and enjoy watching our BP sliding gracefully up and over his branch, through his bracket loop, and around his enclosure. We are able to observe behavior that appears to be fairly natural as he arranges himself in a pose that suggests he is waiting for a small furry creature to come to drink at the watering hole (bowl), or as he waits patiently for a small creature to appear under a plant, or as he basks under the "sun" (heat lamp). I understand that you do not approve of any of these things.

So I've had to work a little harder and spend a little more money in my effort to provide a habitat that is appropriate in humidity and temperature in my BP's enclosure. That doesn't justify my being sneered at. You have made your choices; I'm making mine. As long as I am providing the correct humidity, temperature range, basking spots, and food, why shouldn't I go to the extra effort if I wish to do so?

Mykee and Aaron, I respect both of you for your expertise and knowledge about BPs, and I truly appreciate all the care you take to provide detailed information to the many newbies and ignorant people who come to this forum for advice. However, we have different reasons for having snakes in our care, as well as different goals for their lives while they are in our care.

I'm sorry but snakes don't "enjoy life" as we do. How they enjoy life is to eat, sleep and procreate. Their life goal is to continue their species. That is it. Keeping a single animal as a "pet" is actually doing the species and it's intention on this earth a disservice.

I agree that snakes don't enjoy life as we do. Does that justify my stuffing one in an unnatural habitat such as a plastic tub when, with a little extra effort and expense, I could provide a more natural habitat? Even if I am the only one who will appreciate the nicer habitat and the snake never does, at least I know that I am treating the snake with the respect it deserves as a living creature on this earth. I agree with GoodSmeagol, quite frankly--I believe keeping animals in plastic tubs is inhumane.

In addition, while I agree that snakes don't enjoy life as we do, I disagree that snakes have any "intention" on this earth. The word intention implies deliberate planning of an action to achieve a desired objective, which in turn implies a level of intelligence that snakes do not have.

Furthermore, if keeping a single animal as a pet is doing Serpentes (not merely one species, but all of them) a disservice--indeed, we should say it is doing all Reptilia a disservice--if that is true, then ALL of us are engaged in that disservice. Those of you who are breeding any species of Serpentes or any other reptilian in order to sell them are doing them an enormous disservice.

Or will you argue that you are keeping them alive as they die in their natural habitats? Then we could discuss how your breeding many different morphs is contributing to their natural purpose in the order of things, especially those morphs that could never survive in nature. And if you argue that you are continuing the species/suborder/order/class (take your choice of what level you are assisting) by breeding them, then I and the rest of us who purchase your product--the offspring you produce by breeding your snakes or other herps in unnatural circumstances--are contributing to and facilitating your efforts to keep these beautiful animals alive on this eart. And you sneer at us?

And BTW, I've kept quiet about the claim that BPs get stressed in large enclosures for a long time, but since we're on a discussion that touches on their natural habitat versus their captive conditions, it seems to me quite ludicrous to claim that an animal that lives naturally in the great outdoors will be stressed by a 55-gallon enclosure or larger. It is not a logical argument.

Perhaps that helps you justify your Rubbermaid tubs, though.

Now you've pissed me off.

GoodSmeagol and Kyle, I appreciate your contributions and defense.

Coy, I also appreciate your tolerance of my choice:

Ifyou have time and are willing to do the extra work then great,

[citysnakes]

are you guys seriously having a tub vs. tank war?

tub or tank, they are both not natural environments and the snake doesnt know the difference between them. as long as you can provide the animals basic needs in either type then they are both just as "humane" as the other.

im sorry to break it to you guys but nobody here is replicating the wild no matter how natural you think your enclosure is. do you tank people really believe that because you use coco husk substrate, fancy exo terra hides, fake rock water bowls and maybe climbing branches that you are replicating a ball python's natural habitat? my balls dont know the difference between that and aspen substrate, upside down kitty litter tub hides and dog water bowls and they are doing just as well if not better than your animals.

point being although a plastic tub and a fish tank are not designed to house any type of reptile, with a little modification they can both properly do the job.

[GoodSmeagol]

Who said anything about replicating
I use paper towel substrate
A small plastic bin with a hole cut in it for its humid hide
A white glass pie plate for a water dish, 1.5" deep(not the water)
and a raw looking Y branch
Spungum(sp) moss in each hide, one slightly moistened

Aaron wasnt wrong in entirity, they do not think or see or take the same comfort in us, so I do not care to spend for the exo terra rocks and such
I use 'tricks' to fake something for them to do other then slide up and down the plastic walls of a tub

I got riled up because they were making me out to be a terrible herper because I choose to use a TERRARIUM(fish tank, seems to be a misuse of the term)

[Aaron_S]

Julian, I was not trying to have a "tub vs tank war". You said what I was trying to say a lot better than myself. I was trying to point out that either way it's still not natural to keep them in a tank or tub. If I am going to do either I'm going to do the one that's best suited to my snake. I've used tanks and they CAN work with adjustments as pointed out but my snakes in them weren't always the best eaters.

As I mentioned, why use fish tanks which are harder to use or clean even when there's plenty of great enclosures you can buy will massive front doors for viewing purposes? Nobody seems to have answered this.

Chu: You don't understand why a large tank would stress out a snake? You don't get the difference between a snakes life in Africa compared to one in a 4 sided, glass tank, with people continually putting their hands in there to clean and just stare at the snake. Touching it. Ball pythons in Africa lie in some hide the entire time. They don't roam when they don't have to.

Let's look at it this way. I got some baby ball pythons earlier this year. I originally set them up in larger enclosures (with hides) and they would not eat for me. I switched them to smaller enclosures and all four started eating for me with a voracious appetite. Difference? Only the habitat size. Makes you wonder...

[Chu'Wuti]

they are both not natural environments and the snake doesnt know the difference between them. as long as you can provide the animals basic needs in either type then they are both just as "humane" as the other.

nobody here is replicating the wild no matter how natural you think your enclosure is

Do you think that we don't know that? Here's what I said:

enclosure that mimics the natural habitat for the creature in my care reasonably well

I suppose I shouldn't have said "reasonably well," or I should at least have qualified it to "reasonably well in the space I have provided for captive conditions," as it appears that you guys wish to pick nits on this issue.

Fine. My enclosure is not natural at all; I'm quite aware of that. And it's not appropriate despite my work to ensure that the temps & humidity are appropriate and that there are multiple hides. It is only attractive in appearance, it only provides a few of the "amenities" of nature, and my snake only comes out hunting when he feels like it and appears to be comfortable in it to my completely biased and totally inexperienced eye. And as my eye is so very inexperienced, I really don't know whether he's comfortable, so I must be making it all up. It's all in my mind, right?

point being although a plastic tub and a fish tank are not designed to house any type of reptile, with a little modification they can both properly do the job.

Thank you, Julian!!

I was beginning to think that Rubbermaid and Sterilite had designed their plastic tubs specifically for keeping snakes in them! And it's a great relief to know that "with a little modification" my glass enclosure can do the job. Indeed, that is precisely what we have done to ensure proper humidity and temps.

my balls dont know the difference between that and aspen substrate, upside down kitty litter tub hides and dog water bowls and they are doing just as well if not better than your animals.

I originally set them up in larger enclosures (with hides) and they would not eat for me. I switched them to smaller enclosures and all four started eating for me with a voracious appetite. Difference? Only the habitat size.

That's great, Aaron and Julian! It's wonderful that your snakes are doing so well!

Of course, you don't know how my animal is doing--you're only making assumptions because you've learned I'm not keeping him in a Rubbermaid tub. You've decided that Rubbermaid (or whatever brand you're using) tubs are perfect, which means that anything else is imperfect and therefore snakes kept in anything else cannot be doing well.

I can turn that argument around, too, but I won't, because you'll just throw it back in my face. So I'll just let it drop here, because it'll just set off another round of this, and I have no interest in engaging in this merry-go-round any more.

[Kmef07]

I think this thread turned into a big misunderstanding i think both parties are now saying that either way is fine as long as there are adequate adjustments made to the benefit of the snake. Rubbermaids by far are the cheapest and they work just fine and are easier to maintain. glass tanks are more expensive but look better and are harder to maintain. i dont think the snake really cares either way as long as it has some place to hide and feel safe whether it be a turned over flower pot with a hole or a fancy fake tree. right now with my one brb i have a glass display tank but when i get more snakes to breed they will probably be kept in rubbermaids as they are easier to maintain with a lot of snakes.

there really is not a good or bad way to go between tanks and tubs. i do agree though that tubs probably make the snakes feel safer because they are more confining and it is more like a hole to them.

As I mentioned, why use fish tanks which are harder to use or clean even when there's plenty of great enclosures you can buy will massive front doors for viewing purposes? Nobody seems to have answered this.

i don't go out and buy a really expensive enclosure because they are really EXPENSIVE. my 35g aquarium was only $30 at a pet store that was going out of business and when i was looking at a massive terrarium it was around $1000. i am currently building one with my dad that will be huge and wooden with a front viewing panel but that has been delayed since my grandpa died last week. so for now to display my beautiful snake i choose to have it in an aquarium. whats the point of owning a beautiful snake if you can't show it off and let everyone see how pretty they are. i've gotten a ton of people interested in snakes the the 6 months or so i've been into snakes. and about 30 people are new snake owners cuz my display in my room caught their eye.

[citysnakes]

Originally Posted by Chu'Wuti

Of course, you don't know how my animal is doing--you're only making assumptions because you've learned I'm not keeping him in a Rubbermaid tub.

Chu, please dont assume that i have made any assumptions about the current health of your animal because i have never made any such statements.

Originally Posted by Chu'Wuti

You've decided that Rubbermaid (or whatever brand you're using) tubs are perfect, which means that anything else is imperfect and therefore snakes kept in anything else cannot be doing well.

Also please dont accuse me of this belief especially after reading my last post in this thread which clearly says otherwise.


It seems like my post has been misinterpereted as an attack on something or someone. Please dont take it that way as it was only meant to show my own personal opinion on this topic.