OK let’s have some fun,

[monitor boy]

no sorry about the delay but i have been either working at my jobs or making sure that all my animals are doing well and trying to build new cages for new animals coming. so have just had the time to get on and read the thread. and i still think i have the responsability to take care of them and i agree with many things ppl have said but for the fact that ppl should have experience with croc monitors now i must say and big monitor is pretty good experience not the best but for sure a good start. now i have to say that i have worked with other niles before and i have worked with one that is about 6.5 feet and the nastiest thing ever seen. and looking for sign of an attack is always important i am always very observatice of my monitors to make sure that i will not be attacked cuz they have mixed attitudes and can do stuff out of no where so i am always careful. i am not too sure who wrote that ppl would change there mind when they get a big chomp out of there arm, but in my case ever since i have seen steeves gloves, well actually arm piece i went out and made one as similiar to that is possible so i am always thinking safety. now for asking for a picture of the cage i am not going to go build the cage until i know i will be getting them so it would be hard to do that in my case but i can always send pics of my other animals in there cage so you can tell that i keep my animals in proper caging.

and once again sorry for the delay and also thanks for giving many people the opportunity 2 own some crocs especially whn i know i can go out and spend 3000 grand on a pair of them but money food is not a challenge for me just so it doesn't sound like i don't have enough money to feed them or house them but i can do that just not purchase them

[NewLineReptile]

Steeve B.......What you are doing is a real good idea.And ihad my share of large monitors in the past as for a good person for this idea i know Monitor boy i have delt with him in the past and he has a few of my monitors now includeing my 5.5' Nile and he takes good care of her all his animals come first that i have seen and i think he would be a good person for this

Good luck Steeve B...with this idea

Brandon

[Steeve B]

*I promise not to get in their cage to feed them,*
This is one of my favourite time with them, having the chance to enter there domain is awesome!
*to put them on a leash and walk them too the park,*
I have a big male I often take for a swim in a nearby lake *UNRESTRANED* we spend hours catching frogs together, believe it or not aim better catcher then him.
This is the kind of info I almost never share, because it give peoples the impression they will do the same, not so this animal aim talking about is one in many and not common.
*to let anyone else interact with them physically,*
Honolulu Zoo did this with spectators; you shod email them about this!

*and I promise to ask you first when ever I have a question about them.*
This I never ask to anyone, I don’t feel owners of my babies O me any kind of bond, peoples are free to do what ever they want, as long as it respect others rights.


*Do you have any questions for me?*
Yes I have a few if you don’t mind,
You seem to have both the maturity and facility to keep them! But you also seem to have the ability to communicate your experience to others.
Can you share with us how you will deal with this situation when you have babies of your own?
How will you judge if the person you’re selling or donating your crocs will act responsibly?
Meeting isn’t always possible as these animals are exported most of the time.
Also how who’d you deal with demands like the others on this thread?

Thanks
Rgds

[Scales Zoo]

Steve Says
You seem to have both the maturity and facility to keep them! But you also seem to have the ability to communicate your xperience to others.
Can you share with us how you will deal with this situation when you have babies of your own?
*****************************

Well, good question. We have not bred any of our large pythons because we know there aren't enough good homes for babies.

There are a lot less crocodile monitors available, than there are large pythons. Before I attempted breeding (If I attempt breeding) I would collect a list of people that wanted them.

Same as Great Danes. One should wait until they have a list of ready and approved buyers, before breeding the dogs.

I currently know of 2 places that would be potentially good homes for croc monitors. Both of these are open to the public, educational, and have someone that would care about these animals, and strive to look after them properly.

If we decided to breed, we may only incubate a certain number of eggs. If we had extra babies - we would keep them, and grow them up. If, along the way, we found another place or 2 that should have crocodile monitors - we may have some well established ones to place, and not have to breed them again.

They may be listed as CITES appendix 1 in the future. I would love to keep the possibility of future C.B. specimins e in Canada.
*********************

Steve says

How will you judge if the person you’re selling or donating your crocs will act responsibly?
********************

I will have had the chance to judge them before any babies are born. If I see an appropriate place for a crocodile monitor, I will try to provide them with a healthy juvenile.

As I said, we have chosen not to breed burms, retics or african rocks. It is not like a zoo could not get one of these if they wanted to, they are common.

If there were other crocodile monitors available in Canada, the chances are good that I would not breed. I may breed, just to keep the babies - and to learn from what I record during the breeding and egg laying cycle.

I have trouble with people freezing eggs of rare animals, but when one thinks about it, it often may be the better choice than to send the babies to homes.

Maybe the home is good, but what if they decide to sell it (as is what happened recently)? I would always buy back any babies that were no longer wanted, than to let them go to homes that may not be good.
******************

steve says
Meeting isn’t always possible as these animals are exported most of the time.
*************

I said I'd buy you a plane ticket out here, pick a date.
************************

Steve says
Also how who’d you deal with demands like the others on this thread?
***************

I'm not fully sure what you mean by the demands of others on this thread.

I know that I was a good snake keeper at the age of 12.

I don't like age discrimination, but with potentially dangerous animals - I think the seller should be able to discriminate against anything, age, attitude, living accomodations, income.... etc.

It is up to you, where your animals go.

Ryan

[Steeve B]

Scales Zoo most peoples don’t know this, but preventing varanids to breed may have consequences, this is what happens to a female after multiple reabsorbtion, therefore proper nesting and cycling is mandatory for long term health, I fully agree and understand the need to destroy eggs or hatchlings if needed.
Sorry guys for this disgusting photo, but this and a multitude of things can happen if these animals aren’t well taken cared of.

[markb]

What I wrote in Reptiles magazine pretty much summed up what we know and don't know "THEN" - since then, they have been bred in captivity 4-5 times (published) and other private breeders have sent me notes on their breeding success and failures which are equally important.

I have new locality data from Steve B., new photos of them in the wild basking in open grass like a komodos do in Komodo/Flores, in groups!!

There is NO data of their natural diet, but examining a large 9 inch skull, 3/4 inch teeth, they eat BIG stuff, and puncture it to death - like the PNG call them, Dragon of the Trees is no lie.

There is no data on population density, except for photos I describe above which can tell alot, and I believe these animals to quite social, more so than suspected - but maybe not as much as V. jobiensis. They roost arboreal at night, probably hunting at night as well, have territorial behaviors.

How big do they get? Nobody knows for sure. The largest captive one is at Brownsville Zoo, TX and is 10 feet. Col. John Balshford-snell described them as 13 feet in his explorations of them; others say more, like 17 feet - who knows? I don't.

So what else do we know? I have to go ask a few Papuans now and see what they say....

cheers for now,
markb

[chuck911jeep]

ok,after thinking about that, it's not a good idea for me get those Salvadorii. What i really want is a "tame dog pet" monitor.I could provide a good home but what makes me really happy is to see a big lizard play with my dog and eat in the same bowl like my Arbentina tégu do. So, i will retire myself of the "contest" and wait for the occasion to get the big good tame boy.

[Steeve B]

That is a very wise decision!
I have other varanids that will fit your needs you can breed and enjoy even more!
And you don’t have to worry about the outcome of any transaction with them.
I will let you know when available
Cheers and thank for your participation
Rgds

[V.hb]

a light has shined on this thread! i hope others follow in chucks footsteps.. good for you man

[monitor boy]

i would liek to thank brandon for this nice comment

and for breeding them i wouldn't even bother wasting my time with that monitors of that size aren't good for pets. thats the reason i keep monitors i get the big ones to try to get one more out of the hands of ppl who shouldn't keep them. not you though brandon u did amazing job on the nile. i have tried to rescue some monitors but only when the space is available and that is the exact reaosn i keep all my monitors seperate. i have pairs of the niles and water but always seperated no need for ppl to get into these as pets i am only going to try to breed my nile next year so i can get the eggs to see if the other monitors will eat for food nothing better then a little bit of variety and its not like its hard to fatten up a monitor i will probably do this with every monitor i have not every year though like switch the years so the first year niles, then waters the next year, the croc monitors so they don't get stressed out

i might keep one egg from the croc clutch just cuz the pet store i work we keep alot of big desplay animals that we don't sell and that would be a perfect specimen.
and steeve i would appreciate if you could send me some more details of them or email or pm like there exact size now and even pics of them is always nice to see just to get my hopes up of course

[V.hb]

you're gonna go through all the hard work of breeding niles to feed off their eggs? thats a bit odd dont you think? Theres alot of money involved in successfully breeding varanids No i dont mean in selling them, i mean in setting them up to successfully do it!.. The food bill alone for the collection you have must be high if you're trying to cycle the female... for eggs.... Crocs eat about 5 times that.

[monitor boy]

i know all that i breed my own supply of rats and mice for food and i get discoutns at the nearest grocery store so that helps alot thats is why food isn't really an issue so i still feed them some chicks every so often so thats all i basically buy

[Siretsap]

Hummm, was eating a bag of mixed nuts when I saw the pic, only saw your warning message after a while it's soo small compared to the pic. lolol I don't mind, ain't grossed out.

I would love to have the crocs, but I got to refuse because I know what they get to be and I wouln't have the space to care for such a great reptile nor does the weather in quebec (montreal) permit me to keep them. I wouln't want them to spend their lives in a cage with only a month and a half per year to be outside. I don't think anyone who can't have them outside all year long, or almost should want to keep them.

[Steeve B]

OK NOW its time for me to be judged and pleas don’t spare me! As you won’t do me any favour if you did.

My first choice is Scales Zoo because;
No1, Salvadorii are his favourite monitors (you just can’t beat passion)
No2, he has a better general understanding of animal needs (more experience)
No3, he also has the space they need
No4, he understands sometime it’s necessary to sacrifice animals you love to protect them and peoples around them (this is something I deal with more then anyone on this site, trust me you never get use to it)
No5, I know he will care for them long term and probably always try to improve there husbandry.

My comment to Chuck for retracting;
I particularly appreciate you for being honest and having the maturity to realise and admit your so obvious mistake! For this I really think you’re not this far off from being a competent croc keeper.

Too Monitor Boy;
You will most likely become a Varanids authority some day, you sure seem to have the passion, and I can see myself in you when I was your age!
But you having a pair of crocs with the collection you already have, seem a little too much, I cant help but wonder what will happen to them a few years down the road, when you leave the family nest, many things change at this time in life, nevertheless be assured I have no dough you can care for them, and wont hesitate to supply you in a few years.


B-rep;
You didn’t give me much to work with, but from your post you seem honest and devoted, you also have the best tool to breeding success, the inherit will to learn and improve!
Also you know the specie and want to work with it, I hope you will.

In general its not easy to find a keeper for these animals, however many wants to keep them, I know from experience a lot of croc keepers will change there minds soon after realising they don’t make good pets, but they make excellent display and fascinating study subjects. To keep crocs you need to accept that you may never be able to interact physically with most of them (there’s always exceptions) also you need to be prepared for emergencies handling, this can happen for many reason, peoples working with dangerous animals always have bags and boxes thongs hooks gloves and other tools at hand including a back up person in case of emergencies, if they don’t they are not qualified to keep these animals, plain and simple.

I want to thank every one who participated in this great thread, hopefully this will lead the ways for better managing situation like these. You all have my gratitude and appreciation.

Now tell me who gets the monitors?

[Siretsap]

I would say Scales Zoo 100%
They are experienced in herps. They grew up with reptiles. I never met them in person but I trust them with the crocs. I am sure they will take care of them just like the rest of their reptiles.

And I promise this, even if they do not get the crocs, I will go take a look at their zoo. I will plan a trip from Montreal to their destination either this summer or next. Anyone coming along?

Michael