Syringe Feeding - Getting Veiled's Mouth Open

[J-Man]

I saw your picture... what is that? an Iguana?

I'm definitely not giving up on him... I think it might be a lighting problem. I mean all the symptoms seem to be loss of sleep... except for the fact that sometimes he'll open one eye but not the other.

They came in the little woodchips but they were easy to get off (it wasn't sawdust, like meal worms come in, they were larger peices)

Thanks for your reply

Jeremy

[icequeen]

nooo.... Dill is a Corucia Zebrata. Or a Monkey Tailed Skink...Prehensile tailed skink...Solomon Island Skink...just PTS for short, and DillyBean to those that know and love her!

Those are all the different names they are called.

She's a big girl...she weighs about a pound, and is almost 30 inches long from nose to tail tip.

About the waxies...mine came in that wood shaving stuff too...the bigger chunks...but I still found they had wood dust on them as well.
It was rather expensive (7.50 for 50) to find out he doesn't like them!
I'd really love to get him some silkies...but they will be over 50 bucks once shipping and handling is tacked on! Given the way he doesn't eat anything that is offered to him...I'm very leary about making that purchase! Dill is strictly vegetarian...so I couldn't even feed them to her.

Why do you say you think it's a lighting problem? Do you mean at night?
I don't think it's really a lack of sleep. Especially if he's opening only one eye, when he opens them at all.

I really think you need to get him to a vet, before it gets too late.

[J-Man]

I think it might be a lighting problem because it's not just his eyes that are worrying me... it's also his lack of activity. He's not very active at all. Like I told Trace, I hear all these stories from everybody else's chams about how they have all this personality and what's their favorite place to bask and how they're always running around, etc... and he doesn't seem to be like that. Also, I know I have sometimes kept the lights on for more than they're supposed to be (I know, I have to get one of those cheap timers from wal-mart... I'm an idiot) But like you said, it doesn't seem like that's the problem because he does open one eye sometimes...

I definitely think I need to get him to a vet, or at least talk to a vet about him... I just can't find any vets that specialize in chams. But I gotta keep looking.

Thanks for all your help

Jeremy

By the way, like I've been telling Trace, my brother's digital camera isn't working so I can't get any pictures of him... but I decided to just forget about it and take regular pictures and either have them put it on cd or scan them in so you can all get a better look at him.

[icequeen]

I definitely think I need to get him to a vet, or at least talk to a vet about him... I just can't find any vets that specialize in chams. But I gotta keep looking

It's just my opinion but I don't think you'll ever find a vet that "specializes in chams". I think Dr. Ivan is probably the only one in the entire world...but, my point is...find one that is familiar with REPTILES.
Trace sent you a list of vets near you that will see reptiles, start calling them and find one you feel would be able to help you.
My vet here, although reptiles are NOT her speciality....when I took Dill (the pts) to see her, I had called the a couple days before, told her what the species was that I wanted her to look at and what my concerns were about Dill...she then did her own research on the species by reading, and speaking with the veternary college "near" here that DOES have a reptile specialist.
I don't know about there, but here, the veternary college specialist that I mentioned will do telephone consults with other vets (he doesn't have a regular vet practice, so you can't just call him up and make an appt.)

If you think about it Jeremy...when <b>you</b> feel like crap, you probably just lay around...not wanting to move...and keep you eyes shut either trying to sleep, or ignore the pain or sick feeling. I think that is what's happening with your cham.

Again, just my opinion, but, I think it's time to start looking at perhaps some more sinister possibilities rather than the superficial stuff like lighting.
I don't have Zoe on a timer either. I turn his lights on when I get up in the morning, and I shut them off when I go to bed at night.
Usually he gets 12 to 14 hours at a time with the lights on.
It's funny though...because if I sleep in...so does he. I've gotten up at 10 or 11 o'clock sometimes and he's still sound asleep.

Your guy really needs a check up.
If it's the cost you're worried about, the longer you wait, the more it will end up costing.
The first time I took Zoe in, it cost me about $75 Canadian.
But...I will never take Zoe back to that vet...I will always take both of my herps to the other vet that Dill went to.
She was AWESOME! She told me it had been a privelage and a learning experience for me to allow her to care for Dill. She had never seen a PTS before...and she told me that she learned more from me than I did from her...that all she was, was the vehicle to get the medications I needed to help Dill get healthy again...so she charged me HALF of the cost of the office visit, and her wholesale cost of the medication! Now THERE is a vet with her priorities straight! Especially when you think about how she did all this research about the species even before our vet visit.
She's in it for the animals, rather than the paycheque!

Anyway...I got caught up in a ramble there for a minute...

just go ahead and make an appt...then at least part of the guessing game may be solved.

[J-Man]

I didn't mean actually specialize, I meant one that will treat a cham or, if possible, one that has treated chams before.

If you think about it Jeremy...when you feel like crap, you probably just lay around...not wanting to move...and keep you eyes shut either trying to sleep, or ignore the pain or sick feeling. I think that is what's happening with your cham.

You make a good point here, I never really thought about that.

If it's the cost you're worried about, the longer you wait, the more it will end up costing.

It is and it isn't. Cost is a problem, seeing as how I'm 16 and not very wealthy... but that's not why I haven't taken him. I guess it's a combination of the cost, the lack of time, and finding a vet who will treat him... I've already called the 2 nearest me.

But you're right, I think I should get him to a vet.

Jeremy

[J-Man]

Well, I left a message with a vet office (it's closed because of the 4th of July) I told them the whole story, and left my # so I should get a call back tomorrow or Monday.

Jeremy

[J-Man]

WOOHOOO!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I walked upstairs today and saw one of his eyes open (I saw him from the side) and noticed it was his left... it took me a second but I realized that his left was his bad eye! so I moved around to the other side and sure enough his other one was open too!! He's walking around like a pro now lol Not bumping into to anything and he's much more active (I guess because he can see what's going on)

I can't believe how great this feels! I don't know waht did it... I started a more strict lighting schedule yesterday so I don't think it would have worked that fast if it worked at all... maybe it's that plus the feeding, plus the extra watering plus the re-arranging of his cage... I don't know.

Anyway, thank you Trace and Kim SOOOO incredibley much for all of your help, it really means a lot. I just have one more question... what should I do about feeding? should I continue to force feed for a while? I tried hand feeding him a wax worm but he didn't seem to take interest... I also tried a cricket.

THANK YOU SO MUCH! EVERYBODY!

Jeremy

[J-Man]

Hey trace or anybody else... here's a link to the plant that I have... I'm not sure if it's toxic or not.

http://www.chelseagardencenter.com/t...dwarfpalm.html

I couldn't find it on a safe plant list so I'm a little worried.

Jeremy

[icequeen]

Hi Jeremy...

Glad to hear about Duke's turn around. Hopefully he will continue to move forward!

Yes, you must continue to keep feeding and watering him until you see him eating on his own, on a regular basis.
Otherwise, he will just back slide into dehydration, and/or malnutrition. If he isn't well nourished, and hydrated he will try to conserve his strength, and will not eat on his own.
So, don't stop until you know he's out of the woods.

Keep up the good work!

Kim

[J-Man]

I figured I should still be feeding him, so I haven't stopped. I just thought maybe he wouldn't accept real food if he had the force feeding food readily available to him... and so I would have to stop feeding him and he'd kind of be forced to eat? I don't know.

Thanks!

Jeremy

[Trace]

Jeremy...

I know I'm late here... oh boy have I been busy! Or maybe it was because of the "IT" thrashing I took a few posts back. That seriously terrified me. And I just noticed I used the word too. AAAUUGGGGHHHHHHHH!

It's (<- again) been a few days since you've posted an update... is Duke still running around like a crazy fool? I sincerely hope so. One more update would be great, and I really want to see some pics of him when you've got a chance.

As for your plant, as far as I know they are non-toxic and I have them in some of my chameleon enclosures at the moment. I say that because the particular chameleons that live in those cages have devoured their Pothos so those plants had to come out for some regrowth, so the Palms went in temporarily. I find the Palm Plants aren't the best for holding the water droplets when I mist because their leaves are so skinny, but the chams are making due.

Great work with Duke! :thumbsup:

There are some who call me... Trace

[J-Man]

Well I decided to skip a day of feeding him (yesterday) mainly because of his dewlaps (they're looking find of bad). But I started up again today and gave him a healthy feeding. He's doing pretty well. He now officially has his eyes open for good... or so it seems. About the pictures. I gave up on the digi cam and took some normal pictures and they're developed and awaiting my pick up. Don't worry about being late. That's all I can think of for today, I'll give you another update tomorrow.

Thanks!

Jeremy

[J-Man]

Hey Trace. Congrats on the babies! You're a very lucky grandmother.

I have a problem with Duke though. He's getting skinnier, very quickly... but I don't know what I can do because I feed him as much as I can. I think he really needs to start eating on his own again. Is there more filling or a more protein oriented mix I can make? As always your help is very much appreciated.

[Trace]

Hmmm... that's not good. Well I've dug out my chameleon books again and the recommendations I'm getting is either the Bug Juice or the Emeraid stuff. With the Bug Juice, you could make that out of waxworms as those are a little more "fatty" than most bugs. Again, I think the Emeraid powder is only available through a veterinarian so that might be a little harder to get. :/

Did the vet ever call you back?

You could also try the Repti-Aide powder that Kim is using?!!? It is available at most pet stores as far as I know.

GO DUKE!!!

Trace

[J-Man]

The vet called me back but it turns out they DON'T do reptiles and, very oddly enough, they couldn't give me the number of a place that did... I always thought that vets knew of vets with different expertise in the area. So that sucks pretty bad.

I might not be doing the Bug Juice the right way. I think I might do using far too much of the other ingredients and not using enough bugs. So tomorrow I'll use TONS of bugs (wax worms) . Hopefully it should be good.

I went to my very first reptile show today! it was in Monroeville (right by pittsburgh). I was very dissapointed to find out there was only one serious cham guy there. So I talked with him for a little while and ended up getting Duke a little baby sister! And I'm planning on breeding them later on down the road so I guess that could be incest. He had a 5 year old male there which was amazing.... it was probably only amazing because that was the first time I had ever seen an adult in person.

He said a lot of stuff that didn't really make any sense to me though so I got the feeling he didn't know what he was talking about... He said I should get rid of my drip system because something about them pooping around that area because there's constant water there and that makes that particular area very bad... not sure. He also said he knew somebody with a male veiled cham that lived to be 12!! Which blew my mind.

Anyway, I'm rambling! Sorry about that. I'll let you know how the new bug juice goes.