Ventilation, acidosis and blood chemistry

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Well, animals such as those in the prasinus complex don't spend a lot of time in burrows, or even on the ground. The higher up you are, the less stagnant the air is. In addition, rainforests are of course full of plants, and plants put off oxygen. Those two things combined mean the air quality in the rainforest canopy is somewhat high.
Of course, the air on savannas would not be particularly shabby outside of burrows, since there would be fewer things obstructing air flow than at least the lower levels of the rainforest.

I thought we were discussing captive conditions (the matchbox with some twigs and dirt)!

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Not arguing semantics at all, Stefan and I have some wonderful conversations, but sometimes we wind up on a different page because of word confusion.

That's what I meant, LOL. Sorry for the word confusion.
See what I did there? LOL.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Yes it is a very reasonable question.

Personally, I would love nothing more than to build a room 20 feet tall with some live tropical trees inside and truly watch a beccarii or prasinus make use of it.

Not arguing semantics at all, Stefan and I have some wonderful conversations, but sometimes we wind up on a different page because of word confusion.

That's all.. makes it easier to hold the conversation when we clarify what it is being asked.

Thanks Wayne, WE know this a just a discussion, just because at times we may not agree with someone else doesn`t mean we`re being disrespectful. Discussion often leads to progress and as we`ve recently seen when someone decides not to take part progression is halted, and in that case the animals lose again....

[varanus_mad]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

I really like this post. We need more discussions like this.

Personally I do not think it would make a difference. Opening and closing the door for maintenance would provide more than adequate air exchange. Plus, it would not make a lot of sense for a burrowing animal to be intolerant of slightly below average air quality.. Arboreal rainforest monitors are the only ones I can imagine this having an effect on, if the door was opened infrequently. Even then I would guess it would be so minuscule as to be undetectable.
In a completely sealed environment it would eventually be detrimental, but I doubt many people are keeping their monitors in completely sealed cages...

arboreal monitors may not spend time in burrows that's not to say they dont spend a lot of time in places small tight places, with a set humidity/limited ventilation tight sealed in means security to varanids regardless of sp.

I do agree with the rest of your statement though, the vivaria in question are not tightly sealed nor completely air tight.

I can not forsee this being a problem to worry about certainly interesting though.

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

I thought we were discussing captive conditions (the matchbox with some twigs and dirt)!

My point is that the matchbox with twigs and dirt probably does not quite equal the air of a rainforest canopy as closely as it replicates the air on the savannas and in burrows.

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

arboreal monitors may not spend time in burrows that's not to say they dont spend a lot of time in places small tight places, with a set humidity/limited ventilation tight sealed in means security to varanids regardless of sp.

That is a good point, I didn't consider that.

[varanus_mad]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

That is a good point, I didn't consider that.

People get blinkered with the word arboreal... and forget a varanid is a varanid and whatever else second....

its easily done ive done it on multiple occasions myself...

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

People get blinkered with the word arboreal... and forget a varanid is a varanid and whatever else second....

its easily done ive done it on multiple occasions myself...

Indeed. It's all too easy to not consider just one detail.. I would venture to say that a hollow branch probably still beats a burrow though as far as air quality goes, if not by much.

[varanus_mad]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Indeed. It's all too easy to not consider just one detail.. I would venture to say that a hollow branch probably still beats a burrow though as far as air quality goes, if not by much.

I would be inclined to agree Since there are components of air that are heavier than oxygen and a lot of them would end up in the burrows in slightly higher concentrations than higher up.

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

I would be inclined to agree Since there are components of air that are heavier than oxygen and a lot of them would end up in the burrows in slightly higher concentrations than higher up.

Precisely. The CO2 breathed out my the monitor would drift down from a hollow in the treetops, but in a burrow it would have nowhere to go.

[MDT]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Precisely. The CO2 breathed out my the monitor would drift down from a hollow in the treetops, but in a burrow it would have nowhere to go.

So....at what level would the compensatory mechanisms (renal/excretory/etc) adjust for the increased inhaled CO2? It would be interesting to see how significant these alterations are. Moreover, at what point would the animal, "sensing" the metabolic issues, shift positions in the burrow, exit the burrow, etc....?

I do not know if anyone has sampled oxygen/CO2 levels in some of the very deep burrows (gopher tortoise and such). it would seem those would have a much greater possibility of higher CO2 levels. Again, speculation on my part.

[dinosaurdammit]

CO2 level ambient: 823ppm
CO2 level burrow: 841ppm
CO level ambient: 31ppm
CO level burrow: 32 ppm
Humidity: 79%
Temps: 133 hot spot 92 ambient near hot spot 84 cool side 73 in the burrows
Size: 10longx4widex4high
Dirt depth: On cool side soil is 3 feet deep and sloped to the top, hot side has 1 foot of dirt

[erichillkeast]

Originally Posted by dinosaurdammit

CO2 level ambient: 823ppm
CO2 level burrow: 841ppm
CO level ambient: 31ppm
CO level burrow: 32 ppm
Humidity: 79%
Temps: 133 hot spot 92 ambient near hot spot 84 cool side 73 in the burrows
Size: 10longx4widex4high
Dirt depth: On cool side soil is 3 feet deep and sloped to the top, hot side has 1 foot of dirt

Do you by chance have the CO and CO2 levels outside the enclosure, as something to compare it to?

[MDT]

Originally Posted by dinosaurdammit

CO2 level ambient: 823ppm
CO2 level burrow: 841ppm
CO level ambient: 31ppm
CO level burrow: 32 ppm
Humidity: 79%
Temps: 133 hot spot 92 ambient near hot spot 84 cool side 73 in the burrows
Size: 10longx4widex4high
Dirt depth: On cool side soil is 3 feet deep and sloped to the top, hot side has 1 foot of dirt

This is an interesting start. Essentially the same numbers from ambient to burrow (the CO2 value may be a statistically sig number)...now, how to determine the clinical relevance of these numbers and what the metabolic significance actually is?

I don't know what a ppm value is and how that correlates with a percentage of dissolved gas in an organism....

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by MDT

This is an interesting start. Essentially the same numbers from ambient to burrow (the CO2 value may be a statistically sig number)...now, how to determine the clinical relevance of these numbers and what the metabolic significance actually is?

I don't know what a ppm value is and how that correlates with a percentage of dissolved gas in an organism....

Ppm = Parts Per Million.