Neurological issues poll

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by red ink

Is this poll for all snake species or those of us the keep snake morphs that are known to breakdance when exited?

I have neither of the "known" wobbly morphs in my collection so I don't know if my vote of no would be valid (haven't voted yet so as not to interfere with the statistal results just in case)?

I dont keep any of those species myself so its my guess that this applies to all snakes in the collection.

[Jlassiter]

None of my colubrids have nuerological issues and probably never will.....

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by red ink

Is this poll for all snake species or those of us the keep snake morphs that are known to breakdance when exited?

I have neither of the "known" wobbly morphs in my collection so I don't know if my vote of no would be valid (haven't voted yet so as not to interfere with the statistal results just in case)?

i think it covers any breakdancing snakes mate

whether it be a 1 off pure snake with issues or a breakdancing morph

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

I answered that I would breed my Jag. Although he shows no signs of nero issues other than being terrified of everything, the Jag gene can cause nero issues and is known for it to happen in a small percentage. So yes I will and yes I may get some wobbely Jags. It's a risk I am willing to take to produce some awesome snakes.

[jaleely]

The only reason to breed something with known issues of any kind is to make money. You breed, they buy. If you're doing it for the joy of breeding, you're not going to care if you're making morphs or not. You only make morphs, and inbreed animals, when you want to make money.
This argument goes around and around, and really doesn't even need to be brought up again to have us all discuss it.
People are going to breed, make a living, other people are going to disagree, think it's bad for the animals. *shrug*

No one is going to sway anyone to any side. What's the point? Most of us here are pretty well established in our opinions.

[CDN_Blood]

Originally Posted by jaleely

The only reason to breed something with known issues of any kind is to make money. You breed, they buy. If you're doing it for the joy of breeding, you're not going to care if you're making morphs or not. You only make morphs, and inbreed animals, when you want to make money.
This argument goes around and around, and really doesn't even need to be brought up again to have us all discuss it.
People are going to breed, make a living, other people are going to disagree, think it's bad for the animals. *shrug*

No one is going to sway anyone to any side. What's the point? Most of us here are pretty well established in our opinions.

While I agree with you 100% on this, it's not the point of the poll...I'm just curious to see the numbers. I'm not really looking at much of the 'logic' because as you say, it's repetitive from other threads.

[Rogue628]

I don't see an answer in the poll that I would answer

All my current animals have no neuro issues. There are a couple of royal morphs I would really like to have as well as a jag carpet that are known to have issues.

I have no desire to breed my animals. In the past when I kept snakes I didn't have any interest in breeding. Quite honestly it sounds like work and I work enough (80 hr weeks). They are my pets, not a tool for making money or making something cool or unique. I don't care if anyone else does. After all, if we, as keepers, want a CBB animal for a pet, where do we get them? Bottom line, it comes from a breeder, regardless of where you found it.

And for those of you who want to throw humans into the mix, there are people who marry and have children who have issues, whether it be down syndrome or autism, and they are happy people leading what is to them, normal lives.

Breeding (and having any offspring) can be a gamble. If you want to roll the dice, go for it. I've never been much of a gambler so I doubt there will ever come a time where I would get an interest in breeding. It better be something really special that I'd want to give a go at before I bred any of my animals.

[jaleely]

oh. You did say that actually. Sorry! I got worked up. : )

[Caylan]

Honestly, I'm torn on this subject.... I have one jag that I bought with the intention to breed and now her neurological disorder has made me choose to keep her as a pet instead, a special needs one at that... Now I also have another jag with no problems, in fact, she is the tamest snake I own somehow, and has been since hatching... no neuro problems, but I would hate to say that 5% of her babies have a chance of being as bad as my original jag... that just doesn't make me feel right... I think I might just call it a day with the jags and be glad I have one normal one neuro. The spider morph never interested me much, the I had a bit of a crush on queenbees as a noob, their spinning habits are really no problem in my mind. They are alot less stressed then jags are with the affliction, and seem to eat better with it as well... that said I perfer woma balls to the spider balls if I wanted a wobbler, and I really kinda don't, I have Punk already, she's wobbly enough for an entire collection worth of wobbly snakes.... Guess I can't answer this poll eitehr, sorry Todd, hoepfully my written answer suffices

[red ink]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

I answered that I would breed my Jag. Although he shows no signs of nero issues other than being terrified of everything, the Jag gene can cause nero issues and is known for it to happen in a small percentage. So yes I will and yes I may get some wobbely Jags. It's a risk I am willing to take to produce some awesome snakes.

Fair enough and I respect that decision as everybody has the right to breed and produce what ever they want.

I guess the next question would be what do you do with the snakes showing the wobbles at an early age?

Please don't take it as me having a go at you.... It's a legitimate question as like you said there is a chance of it happening and it is another factor to consider when breeding Jags...

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by jaleely

The only reason to breed something with known issues of any kind is to make money. You breed, they buy. If you're doing it for the joy of breeding, you're not going to care if you're making morphs or not. You only make morphs, and inbreed animals, when you want to make money.
This argument goes around and around, and really doesn't even need to be brought up again to have us all discuss it.
People are going to breed, make a living, other people are going to disagree, think it's bad for the animals. *shrug*

No one is going to sway anyone to any side. What's the point? Most of us here are pretty well established in our opinions.

i disagree that the ONLY reason is for money

i breed to create top quality carpet pythons for their beauty,imo,the jaguar colour and pattern mutation,has created some of the very best looking carpets out there.

i'd gladly give away the the rest of the clutch,after i picked my holdbacks

so it's NOT all about money pal

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by red ink

Fair enough and I respect that decision as everybody has the right to breed and produce what ever they want.

I guess the next question would be what do you do with the snakes showing the wobbles at an early age?

Please don't take it as me having a go at you.... It's a legitimate question as like you said there is a chance of it happening and it is another factor to consider when breeding Jags...

use them as feeders for snake eating snakes,would imo be the most productive thing to do with hatchlings,that show severe issues mate

imo feeding a snake to a snake,is NO different to feeding it a small furry animal

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

Originally Posted by red ink

Fair enough and I respect that decision as everybody has the right to breed and produce what ever they want.

I guess the next question would be what do you do with the snakes showing the wobbles at an early age?

Please don't take it as me having a go at you.... It's a legitimate question as like you said there is a chance of it happening and it is another factor to consider when breeding Jags...

No worries we can discuss this without issue.
It would depen on the severity of the issue. I could use them as feeders if they were real bad. I could give them away to people I know. Or I could keep them. I do plan to keep some of what I breed. I am not doing it for money. I want the snakes themselves and to enjoy the process. Actualy I am sure it will coat me way more than I would proffit. Way more.

[CDN_Blood]

Originally Posted by Rogue628

I don't see an answer in the poll that I would answer

All my current animals have no neuro issues. There are a couple of royal morphs I would really like to have as well as a jag carpet that are known to have issues.

I have no desire to breed my animals. In the past when I kept snakes I didn't have any interest in breeding. Quite honestly it sounds like work and I work enough (80 hr weeks). They are my pets, not a tool for making money or making something cool or unique. I don't care if anyone else does. After all, if we, as keepers, want a CBB animal for a pet, where do we get them? Bottom line, it comes from a breeder, regardless of where you found it.

Just a couple of points on this...

Since my dog at my Superman outfit, I'm just a regular guy now, so I can't think of *all* the options for a poll that a body *might* want to choose and even if I could, you can't please everyone all the time - there will always be one that's just never satisfied, so I just focused on the options that I was curious about

I can't speak for Royal morphs, but I can say that not all Jags have issues. Mine is solid as a rock and so is her sibling that I know personally.

Finally, I don't know about anyone else, but I consider someone who calls themselves a 'breeder' a world apart from some private individual who happens to allow some of their snake to breed from time to time, so I take exception to the "it comes from a breeder, regardless of where you found it" thing, lol.

If someone calls themselves a breeder, yes, they're in it for the money plain and simple and that's why they're making a business out of it and there are *so* few exceptions to this that they're barely even perceptible - I've only ever met 2 commercial types that fall into the exception in all my years of herpin' and I give them the credit they deserve in one of my rants. Private individuals who allow their snakes to breed aren't as focused on profit, and a lot of them will actually give away offspring to the right people simply because they know they're going to get the best possible care with that person, so I personally can't group these two types of individuals into the same genre, but that's just me

[shaunyboy]

i hear what your saying regards big commercial breeders mate

i would characterise the type of breeder

1.small collection private breeder (sells privately and individually)

2.large collection private/commercial breeder (sells to the public and wholesales to shops)

3.large scale commercial breeder (the likes of bob clark)

there are the odd exception like a private collection breeder,who also works with and represents,a large commercial breeder.....

the guy i'm thinking of when i think of the above,has a fairly large multi species private collection,but is also the UK representative for a large european morelia breeder

imo,the large european breeder takes exceptionally good care of his snakes and produces the best morelia outside Australia.....

so as you said not ALL large commercial breeders are bad,although there are a few commercial breeders who are,they treat the snakes as nothing more than a comodity,like if they were selling shoes,car parts,etc

so its good you brought up different types of breeder mate

cheers shaun