Reptile World

[David Kwok]

I think that any place that makes an effort to promote the reptile hobby deserves the thumbs up!. Yeah maybe they don't have the budget of setting things up perfectly but at least you should appreciate the effort!

[Corey Woods]

David,

The original questions were:

"Anyone else been there or heard of it?"

"Did everything measure up to code?"

Some people liked it.......some people didn't.

In a perfect world everyone would like each other, get along, hold hands....... all think the same. Fortunately were are all individuals........

I guess if you were to use the rational that you should like it because they have been around for a long time and have done a lot for the industry.......then I guess I'd like listening to Metalica and I'd drive a Volvo........well...I think both of those suck too! I don't like the colour pink either.......want to beat me up over that too?...........I don't really like some types of steak either.....I guess the meat industry is going to be banging on my door to force me to eat it too and like it........

IT'S AN OPINION..............you can't change someones opinion. We aren't publically slamming the place........we are stating our opinion.

Corey

Corey

[NiagaraReptiles]

I do just want to confirm first of all that all I stated in my previous post is my opinion. Nothing about the people behind the scenes (who I don't know) or anything further, just my opinion.


I'm not sure there is any one animal that could have been there to make me feel differently. I do recall the Salty, and other crocodillians to be in pretty good shape for captives, and that pleased me. I guess I'm predisposed to expect something I haven't seen before or haven't seen often when I go to a zoo. Also to see more rare animals in captive breeding situations. I recall several "pet store" animals on display there that I think the cage space could be used for other things perhaps more warranted for captive breeding efforts. Again, that's my opinion.

Thinking further about what has been said by others, I probably am very fortunate to have seen what I have and to have the ability to see rare and wonderful animals in person where many others don't have that within an hour drive of them.

I realize I am only one of 40,000 people and that I can't expect to be impressed around every turn........and I'm also not complaining about that I also realize that familiar items are important to have on display in zoos for many reasons.........Green Iguanas, Anacondas, even Burmese Pythons do have a place for public knowlege and interaction. But I feel zoo's have a greater responsibility than public education........I'll stop there before I drift too far off topic.

Again, this is nothing personal about the people or facility, just my opinion of what I saw when I was there. Berber skinks, Yellow Ackies, Red Eye Tree Frogs, Pac Man Frogs, Cuban Tree Frogs, Corn Snakes, Bearded Dragons, Leopard Geckos etc. are all very common items to me............even Puff Adders (can't remember if they had Rhinos and Gaboons), Black Mamba's, Gila's, and most Rattlesnake species aren't that out of the ordinary to me. But again, that is just me and I offered my opinion.

JonK

[gonesnakee]

Seeings how the word "Industry" keeps popping up, obviously a direct reflection of who's in it for what IMHO I thought I'd bring some more history to this thread. The following is a quote from a recent interview of Dave Bethel of RW by Tim Baergen of TARAS.

"Prior to 1984 the Fish & Wildlife Act stated that all exotic animals were illegal within Alberta. As this was unrealistic they never enforced it. In the early spring of 1984 the government announced it was going to revise the act, to allow the ownership of common pet species such as hamsters, parakets and tropical fish etc, then start enforcing the orginal act. T.A.R.A.S. was primarily formed to lobby the government for the inclusion of common "pet" reptiles."

Obviously the lobby was successful as the new laws allow for us to keep reptiles. Without the lobbying the all out reptile ban would still have been in place & worse yet actually enforced. Not only would we be at a great loss as enthusists & hobbists, but there would be no "Industry". Prior to the formation of the society everyone that kept/bought/sold or traded them was a criminal as per Alberta law. Things have come a long way in 20 years. Alberta now annually hosts the largest reptile shows in Canada, those being the fall shows in both Red Deer (Walter's show) & in Calgary (TARAS show). Most people are unaware of actually how much these people have actually done to SAVE the hobby (or should I say "Industry") as if it were not for them we would not have one at all. We would all be forced "underground" & treated as common criminals, with our collections constantly at risk of being seized & being charged criminally. There would be no awareness or conservation for reptiles/amphibians at all as the Govt. didn't even consider them as part of the new laws. I know this is off topic, but I thought this an important tidbit to share. Even now there are bylaws in effect & others trying to be passed banning exotics in areas country wide & recent provinicial bans are now affecting other hobbists such as Pitbull ethusists in Ontario. These folks went to bat for us all & hit it outta the park IMHO, if it wasn't for them there would be no "Us". Anyhow Nuff Said, Mark
P.S. Good to see posts on both sides of things, as stated this is the way of the world, but some are obviously much more professional than others.
P.P.S. Jon are Hots such as Blk Mambas, Puff Adders etc. actually that readily available on import lists? If so what kinds of federal type regulations are involved in importing them (hots) if any? Other than the normal CITIES etc. that would be the case for all imports that is THX M

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

I think we are beating a dead horse here. I guess you can't accept that I have a different opinion that yours.

This was never a personal attack on Dave Bethel. I'm sure he is a great person......I'm sure he's done a lot of good for the reptile industry. That still doesn't change my opinion on what I thought of Reptile World.

This is all I have to say on the subject.

Corey Woods

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

If you are interested here are some "hot" prices (US funds).

VENOMOUS SNAKES NON CITES PIT VIPERS
Trimeresaurus Albolabris Green Tree Pit Viper 15
Trimeresaurus Albolabris insular Yellow tree pit viper 125
Trimeresaurus puniceus Indonesian Eyelash viper 55
Trimeresaurus hageni Spotted Pit Viper 75
Trimeresaurus purpureomaculatus Mangrove viper 55
Trimeresaurus Wagleri Wagleri Pit Viper 55
Trimersaurus fasciatus Banded pit viper, NORMAL 55
Trimersaurus fasciatus Banded pit viper, ORANGE 75
Calloselasma Rhodostoma Malayan Pit Viper 35
Daboia Russelli Sublimitus Javanese Russell’s Viper 75
Daboia Russelli Limitus Nusa Tenggara Russell's Viper 75

KRAITS (Elapids)
Bungarus Candidus Malayan Krait 35
Bungarus Fasciatus Banded Krait 45
Bungarus flaviceps Blue red headed Krait- Rare!! 125
Laticauda Colubrina Giant Banded Sea Krait 55

DEATH ADDERS
Acanthophis Spp. Death Adder (Seram) 75
Acanthophis Spp. Merauke Death Adder 75

NEW GUINEA ELAPIDS
Oxyuranus Scutallatus Canni New Guinea Taipan 150
Micropechis Ikaheka Papuan Tiger Snake- Rare!! 500
Pseudechis australis King Brown Snake- Rare!! 200
Pseudechis papuanus Papuan Black snake- Rare!! 200
Pseudonaja textilis Eastern Brown snake 150
Demansia antra Papuan Whip snake 150

COBRAS
Ophiohagus Hannah King Cobra 200
Naja Sputatrix Indonesia Spitting Cobra 25
Naja Sumatrana Sumatran Cobra 75

Corey

[gonesnakee]

Corey, I can totally accept your opinion, even though statements made belong on a BOI not open forum, thus my PS above. This thread ain't all about you there lad LOL I thought that others reading it would be interested in knowing some of the history behind the people involved & how its affected us today 20 years later. Nuff Said here also, its obvious who stands where.

THX BTW for providing the Hot price info. Kinda scarey to see what Joe Public has readily available to them at such cheap prices. These are for WC/farmed specimens I'm assuming? Makes it even scarier IMO I guess as long as its not CITIES its go hard if ya have the cash eh. Suprised more "keepers" aren't tagged then ya already hear about. Mark

[NiagaraReptiles]

All <i>Bitis</i> (ie; Puffy's, Gaboon's, Rhino's) are non-CITES and so are Black Mambas. They are subject only to local quota/trophy restrictions from the country/territory of origin. Most <i>Bitis</i> are commonly kept and bred in captivity as well (the only exception that comes to mind is <i>B. parviocula</i>). Demand for Black Mambas is pretty limited as they are a large, dangerous elapid, but the supply is still there.

There are no further restrictions for shipping/importing vemous reptiles orther than IATA regulations (marked, properly packed boxes).

I'm getting the impression that living in alberta would be very different than here in Ontario where venomous reptiles are only restricted by minuciple bylaw. I am realizing more now how fortunate I have been.

JonK

[Corey Woods]

Mark,

I'm actually surprised none of the mods freaked out and pulled some posts........IMHO I don't think any of it should be pulled. Again, it was personal opinion based on an experience.......not a personal attack on a person/business. Some people have trouble differentiating a personal opinion and personal attack.

Would things have been different if it wasn't a reptile facility.....such as "I don't like restaurant ABC because their food was horrible, the service sucked and their were cockroaches running around the floors". This is not a personal attack but ones opinion based on an experience. Other people would have different experiences and thus different opinions.

As for the hots most are cheap as the market is limited. I couldn't find a printed text (Jon would know more than I would) on the price of black mambas but I believe they sell for in around $75 US give or take. You could have a bag of the delivered to closest airport in no time if you really wanted them. But, since the market is limited the demand isn't very high so the prices stay low.

The price list posted above is about 6 months old and are for WC specimens. Mostly adults but some juveniles. Minimum order is $1000 US. I'm sure they screen their customers for the hots.....but they sell everything......if it moves in Indo and can be legally exported it is on their price list.

Corey

[gonesnakee]

Jon & Corey THX for the additional info & yes Jon you guys do have much less to worry about down there that is for sure. as far as hots go I got to experience living in the Kalahari Desert (worked there in 88) & worried daily about getting tagged by Black Mambas, Puff Adders & Spitting Cobras knowing that we had no antivenom. Being literally in the middle of no where any bite would probably have led to a slow painfull death. Sad but true, every venomous snake seen was slain by the locals as was their practice. My first day there my buddy Moses had a huge Puff Adder under his cot that morning. I have zero interest in keeping hots myself because of it even if I could. Cheers Mark