OMFG the level of neglect amazes me!

[Soul_Reaper]

Well first of all i would like to congratulate "those 2 people" who did their best to improve the quality of life of the animals, even though you didn't achieve your goals, you tried and that counts a lot. Thumbs up.

As for the Pet Store horror stories, i don't think i have come across one as bad as the one you guys are talking about here thankfuly. But unfortunately we can't rely on the government or anyone else to help us out. The way i see it, the best weapon against this sort of tirany is BOYCOTT. If we can't shut them down by law let's ruin their business by spreading the word...i believe that's the only thing we can do at the moment.

[Vengeance]

Is their a reason why we can't know the names of said Pet Stores? I'm all for boycotting but without the names of the chain kinda in the dark on who not to buy from anymore.

[ChristinaM]

I think publicly posting the names would be grounds for a possible slander suit. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking. However, I can't see why one could not privately talk about XXX store in a private conversation, and it gets passed on. I've told locals about the experience I had...but done so in private conversations.

[Big Mike]

The establishment in question sound horrible but unfortunately not all that uncommon. It really is unfortunate that the "authorities" do not seem to care.

I would suggest a campaign of some kind. Maybe get TARAS involved. Letters to the store (we know that won't help), letters to SPCA (might help but good luck), letters to the city (like they care), letters to the media. Hope for some reporter to take up the cause and do and an expose type story. Pictures could be worth the proverbial thousands of words in this case. It's one thing for authorities to ignore someone telling them about bad conditions. It's another thing to ignore proof of neglect, especially if the media is involved.

[Vengeance]

In cases of neglect like this sometimes even pictures won't do it. You would have to build a strong and very well documented case. If you just have a few pictures of some underf ed or dead animals all the store has to say is they just received that shipment in and they were delivered like that, that are completly outraged and are no longer useing that supplier. There case closed and everyone forgets. Someone would have to create like a month long journal with the slow degerdation of the animals and complie a time line from when they were recived till when they die due to neglect from the store.

[latazyo]

your petsmart might be a decent reptile place, but they are fairly consistent terrible fish places and if they can't buy live animals, they better not be able to buy fish

fish neglect is as bad as anything else

spreading the word is pretty much the only thing you can do, I don't know what laws are up in Canada, but from what I hear on this site, the involvement of legal agencies in helping with reptile cruelty is terrible

any animal neglect in my area is usually dealt with very seriously, P*t*os here in the US have a bad rap and there are many websites devoted to letting people know the conditions that some locations put their animals in

it is a shame that no govt agency up there takes responsibility for all animals and not just dogs and cats

[Wuntu Menny]

None of this is of any worth until either the wording of the act is altered to specifically incorporate exotics, or until the authorities charged with enforcing it decide to apply the standards universally and without selective interpretation.

No media will touch the issue as it may wind up biting them in court. Additionally, most bigbox chains have bigbox ad campaigns running with the same media companies. They won't jeopardize their ad $$ for the sake of a few starving herps.

BigMike: TARAS has tried to intervene in the past, but the results have been the same. Right now they are more of a hobbiest's club than a political entity anyway.

Vengeance: I'd love to post names, but outside of a legitimate BOI, I leave myself and this site wide open to legal ramifications. Unfortunately the Cdn BOI that was temporarily provided on faunaclass. has been converted to "read only" undoubtedly due to abuse and misuse.

WM

[UpscaleBoas]

wow...i read every word of this post.......its been a while........as an ex-manager of a pet store..with a good selection of rept. i can say more then anything ..money talks..my coustomers where die hard herper's (as am i) and would not tolerate anything out of place including a water dish with substrate in it.........i had my staff spend 75% of there time just cleaning and teaching them to multi task...clean and sell at the same time...(other 25%was stocking shelves.) I do exactly what my coustomers did before i started there..........if things are not correct i will advise the owner...don't bother with mangers..most don't care....explain to the owner not only your concern but your worth to the store...explain to them not that you have a big collection but tall the consumable goods you by from them.....consumable goods like calcium powder have have huge profit margins......and explain that all biz will be lost by you and your friends if things are not corrected now.......they will move to get this done because they not only don't want to lose your biz but because they don't have to do it they will instruct some underling to do it now....talk regulary with the owner and give feed back..they will respond..if they don't walk away and buy nothing from them....sorry for writing so much..but i did read everyone elses rants.....thanks

[Bighead]

latazyo: I agree completely with you about the fish thing. Some people seem to see fish as dispensible animals and it disgusts me. People get annoyed with me on a daily basis when I tell them their goldfish will die if they keep it in a bowl. I hear things like "I've had mine since January" or "My friend so-and-so had a goldfish in a bowl for two years before it died" and then they look at me like I'm an idiot when I tell them that they have 20 year lifespans and one 12 cent comet needs a 20 gallon tank with a powerful filter to live a full life. Oh, thought I'd add one more thing about Petsmart. They have a "Vet Assured" program where all of their small animal and fish breeders are screened by vets on a regular basis to ensure that the facilities are sanitary, not over crowded, and free of disease. All of the fish come from tropical fish farms in Florida where almost every other pet store in the US and Canada get their fish. 90% of the fishes Petsmart gets are captive bred and the other 10% are usually the ones that they haven't had success breeding in captivity. You can see a tour of the farms at http://www.diveintofish.com/tour_farm.htm
It's kind of for kids, but if you feel like checking it out... There is also a phone number in every store on every habitat (at least there should be) that you can call if you feel that the conditions are less than ideal. If it is a valid complaint, the store IS notified and something will be done about it. We were called one time because a customer called reporting that there were no water dishes in the reptile enclosures. It turned out that it was right before we closed and all the dishes were being sanitized in back (which we do 2x per day).

Again, I know that this store is not necessarily an indication of every Petsmart. With over 800 stores, I wouldn't doubt that there are some with unacceptable conditions and I encourage all of you if you see this to be the case to speak with the specialty manager (all fish, reptiles, small animals, birds) and/or the store director in addition to calling the number I talked about. You may also be able to get in touch with a regional specialty manager if you see unacceptable conditions in more than one store. Thanks for reading

[Tiliqua]

Originally posted by Bichiraddict
I think publicly posting the names would be grounds for a possible slander suit. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking. However, I can't see why one could not privately talk about XXX store in a private conversation, and it gets passed on. I've told locals about the experience I had...but done so in private conversations.

Actually, from a legal standpoint, absolute truth is a defense of liabel (read slander). That being, if it is an exageration, a crime is committed. If events are the truth, there is zero ability to sue, or have criminal charges brought.

Cheers.

[latazyo]

Originally posted by Bighead
[B]latazyo: I agree completely with you about the fish thing. Some people seem to see fish as dispensible animals and it disgusts me. People get annoyed with me on a daily basis when I tell them their goldfish will die if they keep it in a bowl. I hear things like "I've had mine since January" or "My friend so-and-so had a goldfish in a bowl for two years before it died"

same here, they just don't understand

[Wuntu Menny]

Anyone that's interested in reading the response of the owner of this establishment can check the link:

http://www.cornelsworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=313

Bear in mind that my original account of the conditions was entirely factual and not exaggerated in any way. If anything, my description was understated as I'm not very experienced with snakes and therefore not qualified to issue advice or opinion on 75% of the animals in the store.

WM

[Tim and Julie B]

Believe me, I know you are not one to over-exaggerate and I am not surprised that Mr. Woo back-peddled his arse six ways from Sunday! I think it is a big step that he knows people are appauled by his store's conditions. Perhaps his store has a snowball's chance in Haydes of cleaning up thier act and actually taking the advice they are given. It sickens me when pet store owners only care for thier furry pets, but refuse to do the same for exotics. Hopefully people will stay away from that place. Seems to me he's in it to turn a fast buck. Hey, he brought it up, not anyone else! I hope to own a clean, reliable pet store one day. Until then, I'll just keep my herps and give my head a good shake when I hear the usual crap out of pet store employees mouths. Take care,

Julie

[Debani]

Well,

I work at a privately owned Pet Store, run by huge assholes.

Anyhow, I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself when I say I am not totally educated on all of the reptiles that enter the store. But, I do try my best to maintain them to the best of my ability.

I have been reading forums here, on reptiles that we have at our store.

Just on a note about mites. Most Pet Store employee's like myself don't know that some types of Bark (Forest Bark) come infested with mites. Without knowing this, we use the bark and our lizards get mites.

So it's not entirely the people who work there's fault. Its the lack of education from managers and owners. But, you may be thinking, its the employee's responsibility to read up and get informed.

We're trying! I have worked there for 13 months now, and I know a heck of alot more than when I started!!

- Nick

[Invictus]

Good for you Nick. Hopefully the owners won't terminate you like they did me in my town.

Oh, and if anyone's interested, I left a SCATHING reply to the owner's pathetic little self-gratified rant. I'm expecting it to be deleted, since most negative free expressions these days are, so read it while you can!