Your view of the reptile hobby - Page 3

StudentoReptile · 02-02-14, 12:43 PM

I know everyone wants to go to far off places for field herping and such, and I'm not denying there are some awesome species in other countries. But I think we take our native species in the USA for granted, and they are disappearing just as rapidly if we don't take steps to protect them. And we have some VERY cool species in our proverbial backyards.

Mikoh4792 · 02-02-14, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I know everyone wants to go to far off places for field herping and such, and I'm not denying there are some awesome species in other countries. But I think we take our native species in the USA for granted, and they are disappearing just as rapidly if we don't take steps to protect them. And we have some VERY cool species in our proverbial backyards.

My favorite NA genus are the pantherophis ratsnakes hands down. Grey rats in particular.

But morelia spilota will always be number one in my heart. I first saw one on Steve Irwin's program about a decade ago, and became ecstatic to find out that you could actually keep one in captivity.

StudentoReptile · 02-02-14, 12:50 PM

Yeah, my comment wasn't necessarily directed you personally, just that what you said inspired it. I know what you meant, and I'm not telling anyone never to travel at all! By all means, fill up that passport!

But I've been doing this for 20 yrs, I'm just now discovering how cool Nerodia and Agkistrodon are! A lot of people shun cottonmouths, and I love finding them in the field, and can't wait to own one.

Mikoh4792 · 02-02-14, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Yeah, my comment wasn't necessarily directed you personally, just that what you said inspired it. I know what you meant, and I'm not telling anyone never to travel at all! By all means, fill up that passport!

But I've been doing this for 20 yrs, I'm just now discovering how cool Nerodia and Agkistrodon are! A lot of people shun cottonmouths, and I love finding them in the field, and can't wait to own one.

ah I forgot about watersnakes. I've never actually seen one in person, only in video. They do seem like they'd be an interesting species to keep in a semi-aquatic enclosure. What's your input on them?(in terms of husbandry)

StudentoReptile · 02-02-14, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

ah I forgot about watersnakes. I've never actually seen one in person, only in video. They do seem like they'd be an interesting species to keep in a semi-aquatic enclosure. What's your input on them?(in terms of husbandry)

Mine is awesome. Very easy, I feed him fish (no goldfish or minnows) and frogs. He is very attentive and active. Right now I keep him like most snakes, on wood chips with two hides, with just a very large water bowl I change often. But I do intend to set-up with a more naturalistic habitat with filter, etc.

poison123 · 02-02-14, 01:12 PM

Aaron, couldn't inbreeding create genetic birth defects (morphs)?

Mikoh4792 · 02-02-14, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poison123

Aaron, couldn't inbreeding create genetic birth defects (morphs)?

Do you mean inbreeding in general? I think most reptiles are fine with inbreeding for several generations, as long as you outcross once in a while.

Some populations of snakes in captivity were started from one or two pairs(namely the insular and not so common locality boas)

**Aaron_S** · 02-02-14, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poison123

Aaron, couldn't inbreeding create genetic birth defects (morphs)?

First we need to understand how morphs happen.

They happen because there is a mutation in the genetics of the animal. We take these anomalies and see if they can be reproduced. If so then we market them.

I honestly can't answer with any certainty if inbreeding would increase the chances of it happening.

My personal opinion is that no it cannot. Considering the vast amount of morphs come from the wild population that it has nothing to do with inbreeding. It's just a "broken" animal on the genetic level.

**Aaron_S** · 02-02-14, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

This I would like to do someday in the future. Australia would be my first choice(not really for the hobby but more for field herping and such...etc)

You do understand that field herping is a part of the hobby if you want it to be right?

It's the beautiful part about it all. Any part of it can be someone's preferred hobby and that's great! Whatever excites and drives someone's passion.

Your original question was loaded considering you weren't taking in all parts of what makes the "hobby" though.

athms · 02-02-14, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Go find them where they are. Go travel and experience the hobby.

I am an expert. Thanks for noticing.

One day. When you eat all your wheaties and grow big and strong you can carry my snake hook. Maybe.

First of all i eat cherrios not wheaties and are you going to ship that hook to me? Or how am i going to get it?

athms · 02-02-14, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I never said tiger salamanders can't be bred. Go and read what I wrote. I said you can't just pick any species to breed for morphs because they are uncommon.

You need to have morphs appear before it happens.

My point is simple. It's fine to dislike a part of the hobby. I don't care because it doesn't affect my enjoyment.
It's just really disrespectful and rude to say it's a bad part of the hobby just because you don't like it.

Yeah but you need to start somewhere

CosmicOwl · 02-02-14, 03:20 PM

I think it's somewhat silly to pretend that a lot of people aren't getting into snakes for the purpose of breeding them. How often do you run into some 12 year old who has a normal and an amelanistic corn snake and is "working on a breeding project." They probably aren't doing it the money, but they watch SnakebytesTV, or read about the the big breeders and think it's an easy job.
There are plenty of people who are just in the hobby for the snakes, but there are also a lot of people in it for money or attention. The later two are the ones that drive the industry. They're the people with 100 or more snakes, who are constantly buying, trading and breeding.

formica · 02-02-14, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicOwl

I think it's somewhat silly to pretend that a lot of people aren't getting into snakes for the purpose of breeding them. How often do you run into some 12 year old who has a normal and an amelanistic corn snake and is "working on a breeding project." They probably aren't doing it the money, but they watch SnakebytesTV, or read about the the big breeders and think it's an easy job.
There are plenty of people who are just in the hobby for the snakes, but there are also a lot of people in it for money or attention. The later two are the ones that drive the industry. They're the people with 100 or more snakes, who are constantly buying, trading and breeding.

its the same with all animals tbh, animal welfare/kennels/rescue centers are flooded with animals which have been bred by some ignorant soul thinking they can make a quick bit of cash, or a careless owner who didnt think that neutering/castration mattered, and people who dont bother to research breeding properly

Its a terrible shame, that so many animals lives are reduced to misery for the sake of human ignorance and greed.

psychocircus · 02-02-14, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

its the same with all animals tbh, animal welfare/kennels/rescue centers are flooded with animals which have been bred by some ignorant soul thinking they can make a quick bit of cash, or a careless owner who didnt think that neutering/castration mattered, and people who dont bother to research breeding properly

Its a terrible shame, that so many animals lives are reduced to misery for the sake of human ignorance and greed.

I agree it happens with all animals. The problem is that to many reptiles are still seen as "disposable," many are cheap to purchase, and people are under the impression that a small reptile= a small, simple enclosure.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen anoles in terrible setups. I don't blame the "reptile trade," as much as I do the "pet trade"

**Tsubaki** · 02-02-14, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

for eg in Holland, they have a minimum size in law, Width = snake length, Height and Depth = 1/2 snake length

but, I think as a community we should go further than that, as some snakes require significantly more space than that, in order to have a high quality of life, and the ability to carry out all its natural behaviors

*cough*Netherlands*cough* No we don't? Its a guideline from dutch reptile fora, and its more like Length+Depth = at least size of adult snakes length. I could keep a retic in a shoe box, as long as i feed it and provide water it's considered 'adequately cared for' There are barely any laws considering animal rights, they are almost seen as plain 'possessions' here. The few laws in animal rights we have, are very wobbly. The best we have is 'guidelines' which you are suggested to follow, but you are not obliged. (And i have only found those for mammals) Worst thing they can/will do if you really do something horrible is a slap on the wrist.

What i would like to see changed here? So many things..But ill stick to: i want more animal rights, and welfare laws.. In my country at least. The laws here are worthless, and instead of making better laws they just try to severely restrict / ban the hobby..