Lets try this again...here are my pets

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by slowhite03

About this open top, that all depends on where you live. My humidity is a constant 40-60%. Both my snakes have complete sheds.

Just because humidity in your area of the country is 40 - 60 , doesn't mean inside the enclosure it will be. Its an enclosed space, and the lamp heats the air, and it rises out, constantly. The air flow is up and out of the top. Get two identical humidity gauges and put one in a different room, and one in your enclosure and let me know if they are the same..

[slowhite03]

I had no idea I was going to have to defend myself but whatever. Sorry I didn't mention because I thought it would be understood that I was talking about the tank humidity but I forgot I was dealing with people who just want to argue. I did the paper towels. I did paper towels but as you must of read seeing how you researched everything I've posted, I didn't like the seams so I wanted a solid piece. Anymore arguments

[Lankyrob]

If you want a solid piece in the tank then use butchers paper, it comes in big rolls, tear a piece to fit the tank, then bin it when dirty. All the benefits of carpet but no bacteria farm

[smy_749]

If you can really clean the repti-carpet so thoroughly as to not harbor anything harmful then fine, you can get around that (throwing you a bone here)...

The real issue is the screen top / heat lamp combo. Living in a humid environment is not a way around the issues at hand, because you are creating a separate microenvironment inside the tank.

[KORBIN5895]

A dumerils is a snake.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

A dumerils is a snake.

I think he's talking about the dumeril's monitor. Not boa.

[EL Ziggy]

Ok, so my kings shouldnt have an screen top because the 75 watt red florescent light that I use for 3-4 hours a day will dehydrate them to the tune of a slow cruel death? In spite of the fact they don't have a high humidity requirement and they have a continuos source of clean, fresh water to drink and soak in? I havent heard that before in any of the care guides I've read and I've done quite a bit of research. I must admit I find that difficult to believe. There is no way to create a totally natural habitual when you keep an animal in CAPTIVITY but I strive to provide them the most comfortable environment I can with and endless supply of love, food, water, shelter and without the threat of predators. I don't think you can do much more for any animal. I know I have a lot to learn and I'm open to that but I see like most information-it is subjective-and you just have to take it in, process and filter it, and do what you think is best for you and yours. I get lots of helpful information from this forum once I get thru the static of egos and bickering. Gotta take the good with the bad, such is life. Be well all.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Ok, so my kings shouldnt have an screen top because the 75 watt red florescent light that I use for 3-4 hours a day will dehydrate them to the tune of a slow cruel death? In spite of the fact they don't have a high humidity requirement and they have a continuos source of clean, fresh water to drink and soak in? I havent heard that before in any of the care guides I've read and I've done quite a bit of research. I must admit I find that difficult to believe. There is no way to create a totally natural habitual when you keep an animal in CAPTIVITY but I strive to provide them the most comfortable environment I can with and endless supply of love, food, water, shelter and without the threat of predators. I don't think you can do much more for any animal. I know I have a lot to learn and I'm open to that but I see like most information-it is subjective-and you just have to take it in, process and filter it, and do what you think is best for you and yours. I get lots of helpful information from this forum once I get thru the static of egos and bickering. Gotta take the good with the bad, such is life. Be well all.

Why do you have the heat lamp on for such a short period of time a day?

[EL Ziggy]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Why do you have the heat lamp on for such a short period of time a day?

@Mikoh
I touched on that in another thread recently. I was asking about keeping that light on continuously because I was concerned about the basking spot being so hot. I don't like the thought of it staying on all day while I'm at work, so I usually just turn it on when I get home until I go to sleep, so its on for more like 5 hours (usually 7-12).

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

@Mikoh
I touched on that in another thread recently. I was asking about keeping that light on continuously because I was concerned about the basking spot being so hot. I don't like the thought of it staying on all day while I'm at work, so I usually just turn it on when I get home until I go to sleep, so its on for more like 5 hours (usually 7-12).

That's what the rest of the cage is for, to cool off. Your snakes should still be allowed the choice of a hotspot so it can thermoregulate. Caresheets reccomend a hotspot of around 90F for carpet pythons. I give both of my carpets hotspots close to 100F. As they move further away from the hotspot they can choose to bask at 98F, 93F, 88F...etc. While the heat is on, the coolest side of their enclosures measure 77-79F during the day.

Also you wouldn't have to worry if you were using a thermostat. Get a thermostat and control your temperatures instead of guessing and only providing a couple to several hours of heat a day.

[EL Ziggy]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

That's what the rest of the cage is for, to cool off. Your snakes should still be allowed the choice of a hotspot so it can thermoregulate. Caresheets reccomend a hotspot of around 90F for carpet pythons. I give both of my carpets hotspots close to 100F. As they move further away from the hotspot they can choose to bask at 98F, 93F, 88F...etc. While the heat is on, the coolest side of their enclosures measure 77-79F during the day.

Also you wouldn't have to worry if you were using a thermostat. Get a thermostat and control your temperatures instead of guessing and only providing a couple to several hours of heat a day.

I definitely need thermostats. l realize thats pretty important. A timer sounds like a good idea too. I'll have those things in a few weeks after I finish some car repairs and get the baby new school clothes, after celebrating his birthday this week : ). Im just pacing myself. I use digital thermoters and currently their hot sides average 85-90 without the lamps and 94-100 with the lamps. Both my kings tend to stay in their cool side hides consistently, but do go to the warm hides too, mostly when they've just eaten or when they're ready to shed. They will perch and bask sometimes but they're usually roaming or hiding.

[B_Aller]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Ok, so my kings shouldnt have an screen top because the 75 watt red florescent light that I use for 3-4 hours a day will dehydrate them to the tune of a slow cruel death? In spite of the fact they don't have a high humidity requirement and they have a continuous source of clean, fresh water to drink and soak in? I havent heard that before in any of the care guides I've read and I've done quite a bit of research. I must admit I find that difficult to believe. There is no way to create a totally natural habitual when you keep an animal in CAPTIVITY

well this is as good a place to start as any I guess,
Yes, to re-iterate, your kingsnake should not have a screen top, a 75 watt bulb in a 40 gal aquarium for 3-4 hours a day is way off. For that size enclosure you should never need more than a 25-45 watt bulb, this is a great example of what I was speaking of, giving the animal a chance to be an animal by providing everything it needs 24-7 and letting it choose. You are not getting a proper thermal gradient with that wattage of bulb and that size enclosure, that's why you force the animal to be on your schedule, not theirs. Why do you keep the bulb on for those hours? did the snake tell you those were the hours it would like to bask? Why not provide everything the animal needs all the time and let it show you what a kingsnake is.
You say your snake does not have a "high" humidity requirement, you are missing the point, where do these snakes live in nature? they live in the ground. Why? security and to RETAIN moisture. How humid is a burrow?
How does a constant low level dehydration effect their physiology?
High humidity is NOT what your after, you want to reduce the moisture loss not constantly replace it. Fresh water is not the point (yes they should always have access) you want to avoid the loss in the first place. It has nothing to do with tropical/desert etc. all reps are designed to limit moisture loss, you are working HARD against that when providing an open topped enclosure. Did you look into what a meat dehydrator looks like or how it functions? please do.

Where are you doing your research? in pet or hobby mags/websites?
This basic modern husbandry principle was laid out by "The father of Zoo biology" Heni Hediger,(in the 1960's!!) the most famous animal behaviorist since Pavlov, also called "the father of animals in captivity" but many, many others have carried on this work, this is not new or groundbreaking or any such thing, it's common sense and applied knowledge, please don't take it form me, PLEASE DON'T believe me...just look into it yourself.
As for your last line in this quote, check out my signature below and ask yourself, why a guy who designs and builds animal enclosures and zoo exhibits to put food on the table would be promoting this concept and what does it mean.
Thanks.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by B_Aller

x

I was going to pm you but I figured incase others are wondering the same thing I should ask publicly.

What is your view on belly heat vs over head heating in enclosures, and back heating in rack systems?

[B_Aller]

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

I was going to pm you but I figured incase others are wondering the same thing I should ask publicly.

What is your view on belly heat vs over head heating in enclosures, and back heating in rack systems?

Weird, I answered this last night but it's not up, maybe I screwed up somehow,it was late, and I was drinking.

Don't want to go off on another tangent but I'm not a fan of racks, took the fun and soul right out of the hobby in my opinion, but let's leave that for another day.
I'm mainly an overhead heat guy, I prefer to use banks of lights for heating as it's just super easy to tell if they're working or not. But...I do use under and side substrate heating for several applications and I use many different types of heater in the exhibits I build ( some work great, others...not so much) so it's not that cut and dried.
For the smaller set ups I prefer overhead, easy to tell if it's on, easy to adjust etc...gotta run out of time.
Best

[EL Ziggy]

Thanks for the information BA, I dont doubt your knowledge and expertise and I'll have to do more research on your theories.