What do you think of hybrids? - Page 3

Amadeus · 06-25-13, 04:10 PM

I know rhinoceros vipers and gaboon vipers breed naturally in the wild but it would be totally different if I took a rhino viper and bred it to Sumatran pit viper because that could not possibly happen.

**Aaron_S** · 06-25-13, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

perhaps you should look up the word Hybrid before you continue this line of argument. - it has nothing to do with human intervention

Answer my question regarding how breeding these species, the woma and the ball pythons is evolution.

This is my last post.

We'll agree to disagree is all.

formica · 06-25-13, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Answer my question regarding how breeding these species, the woma and the ball pythons is evolution.

This is my last post.

We'll agree to disagree is all.

humans are just as much a part of the enviorment that an animal lives in, as everything else in this world, that manipulates the evolutionary progress of a species - just because we choose to use semantics to try and seperate ourselves from nature, doesnt mean that we are apart from it

Mikoh4792 · 06-25-13, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I didn't talk to you about evolution.

But you did. This quote below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Would you care how breeding two species who have evolved for their own habitats together creates "evolution" as you stated? I don't see how that's evolving considering patterns and colours have a lot to do with natural habitat and their survival.

Why did you say "as you stated"? I never stated anything about evolution. Which is why I responded to this quote by saying " I never said anything about evolving. I just find it natural that humans want to toy around with nature.

Quote:

Since you touched upon it it's arrogance to believe we are smarter than other animals. Pretty sure we kill our own kind for no reason at all. I'd at times, think other animals are ahead of us in intelligence. They don't destroy their own habitat either.

Also, I wasn't talking about intelligence when I was talking about arrogance. It's arrogant for us to just play God "because we can".

It's not arrogant to believe we are smarter than other animals. It's reasonable to acknowledge it. We can be very destructive towards our own kind and the planet in which we live. We can be "stupid" in that way. But we are still smarter than other animals. If you can't get past this then it's just a matter of opinion for you.

**Aaron_S** · 06-25-13, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

But you did. This quote below.

Why did you say "as you stated"? I never stated anything about evolution.

It's not arrogant to believe we are smarter than other animals. It's reasonable to acknowledge it. We can be very destructive towards our own kind and the planet in which we live. We can be "stupid" in that way. But we are still smarter than other animals. If you can't get past this then it's just a matter of opinion for you.

I was having two conversations within this thread. Not every comment was directed towards you. Sorry you couldn't see that and it confused you.

Last part, I think we're pretty arrogant as a species. We don't preserve our species very well compared to others so I'd question how "smart" we really are in certain regards.

Mikoh4792 · 06-25-13, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I was having two conversations within this thread. Not every comment was directed towards you. Sorry you couldn't see that and it confused you.

It happens. One time I thought marvelfreak was you during a previous thread and I got confused as well.

Quote:

Last part, I think we're pretty arrogant as a species. We don't preserve our species very well compared to others so I'd question how "smart" we really are in certain regards.

I think we are arrogant as a species as well. I don't really want to go into a topic about how smart we really are, but I was just saying I think it's natural for an animal that has evolved to have our "brain capacity"(I don't mean intelligence, I just mean the capacity to experiment with things as we do) to want to breed two kinds of animals that would never breed in the wild.

In other words, it's just nature playing out. It's become complex enough on our planet that species that would never be introduced in the wild are now being introduced by animals who have the capacity to do so. "Artificial" selection imo is still natural. I understand how oxymoronic that sounds.

formica · 06-25-13, 04:32 PM

its not oxymoronic at all, the problem is that people have for too long see Humans as something seperate from Nature; everything that humans do, is Evolution, you are right

Amadeus · 06-25-13, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

its not oxymoronic at all, the problem is that people have for too long see Humans as something seperate from Nature; everything that humans do, is Evolution, you are right

I do believe that we are different than conventional nature, we have written language, amazing technologies, space travel, advanced medicine.
I could go on...

formica · 06-25-13, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I do believe that we are different than conventional nature, we have written language, amazing technologies, space travel, advanced medicine.
I could go on...

animals can communicate, build air conditioned nests, produce antibiotics, farm their own foods, i culd go on to. we have bigger brains than most animals, and more dextrious fingers, but we are not that special

Mikoh4792 · 06-25-13, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

animals can communicate, build air conditioned nests, produce antibiotics, farm their own foods, i culd go on to. we have bigger brains than most animals, and more dextrious fingers, but we are not that special

And I don't see why what we can do is not considered to be natural. It's complex for sure, but why does that have to make it unnatural? Just because our systems are more advanced than the systems of other living things does that take us out of nature? It's just complex nature.

smy_749 · 06-25-13, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

The problem is simple.

Best example is Australia.

Legally we can no longer import their animals. Such as jungle carpet pythons. We no longer have a gene pool, it's a gene puddle that's muddied by other animals like the "carpondro". For what purpose? For the sake of saying "I did it".

We will lose what nature gifted us for the sake of us being egotistical and wanting to play God.

This is my take on the issue. We already muddy it up enough, we don't need to make it worse with hybrids or we are going to end up with freak show animals and no real species. I also don't agree with things/morphs with health issues because we think they look 'cool'.

KORBIN5895 · 06-25-13, 05:36 PM

Here is why hybrids ate wrong for our hobby. Someone has bred a royal python to a Burmese python and created the burmball. Now what is a burmball? Considering that burms are banned from crossing state lines die to the Lacy act are burmballs also banned? Who is making that decision? What happens when some idiot starts crossing burmballs with royals to introduce certain burm patterns to the royals? Are these 25% burms 75% royals illegal? What if law makers get scared and ban royals too? What is to blame?

Amadeus · 06-25-13, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Here is why hybrids ate wrong for our hobby. Someone has bred a royal python to a Burmese python and created the burmball. Now what is a burmball? Considering that burms are banned from crossing state lines die to the Lacy act are burmballs also banned? Who is making that decision? What happens when some idiot starts crossing burmballs with royals to introduce certain burm patterns to the royals? Are these 25% burms 75% royals illegal? What if law makers get scared and ban royals too? What is to blame?

I hadn't even thought about that...

red ink · 06-25-13, 07:55 PM

Not a fan of hybrid... I find most of them to be a failure of what the holotypes look like. That being said I also don't care enough about them to argue over an internet forum.

formica · 06-26-13, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Here is why hybrids ate wrong for our hobby. Someone has bred a royal python to a Burmese python and created the burmball. Now what is a burmball? Considering that burms are banned from crossing state lines die to the Lacy act are burmballs also banned? Who is making that decision? What happens when some idiot starts crossing burmballs with royals to introduce certain burm patterns to the royals? Are these 25% burms 75% royals illegal? What if law makers get scared and ban royals too? What is to blame?

blame? illegal? what? this is not reasoning, this is saying, its wrong because its wrong.