The yellow rat snake that may enjoy some human contact. - Page 2

MDT · 05-30-13, 01:51 PM

Our snakes do not like us.....period.

possum · 05-30-13, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

Our snakes do not like us.....period.

translation: your snakes don't like you

MDT · 05-30-13, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possum

translation: your snakes don't like you

Yeah...I'm pretty positive yours don't like you as well...

possum · 05-30-13, 01:58 PM

Speaking of snakes enjoying human contact, here's a funny but true story: a 'celibate' male rosy boa I kept for many years liked to snuggle around my neck while I did dishes or other light activity...(I know "don't let snakes wrap around your neck for safety"...but male rosy boas, for those who don't know, don't exceed 30"...pretty much 'scarf size' and harmless) Anyway, one night I could feel his spurs scraping my neck & realized with some degree of surprise & amusement that he was "flirting" with me! (that's what they use their spurs for) My best guess is that he was feeling my pulse in my neck & perhaps was responding partly to that? (-thought I was nudging him?) I also had a female rosy boa and I have to wonder if he was picking up a few molecules of her scent and putting "2 + 2 together", very optimistically? LOL

Starbuck · 05-30-13, 02:07 PM

honestly, I am hard pressed to think of a situation in which my snakes appear to enjoy my presence.
My female king becomes extremely alert when someone walks by, and even more so when her cage is opened, but her reaction to then bite ANYTHING that then enters the cage (hook or hand) reinforces that she is just conditioned to think it might be food. It is only after she has been hooked and removed from the cage that she stops having a feed response to every touch; but there is absolutely nothing to make me think she either likes or dislikes being out of her viv. She explores a bit, but she explores her viv as well.

My male king actively dislikes being removed from his viv, and will musk a good deal of the time. Once out and being handled, he calms down, but remains nervous and very keyed into his surroundings. With him, i am 100% certain he would rather never get handled and would be perfectly happy to eat, poop, and sleep his days away untouched. Just because he doesnt react negatively (by bring, hissing, etc) doesnt mean i think he reacts positively.

I prefer to think of most of my snakes reactions as blind curiosity. They will always investigate any environment they are put into, and i think they can interpret is as bad or not bad (good temp/bad temp, humid/not humid, etc) but i do not think they enjoy it or seek it out. I do think they can be conditioned to responses; this is why my female king gets excited when i open her cage (food), or why they calm down when removed form the viv by the hook, or why the ones getting injections (antibiotics) tense up when placed on the counter for their shot.
It isnt such a large jump to say they can be conditioned to respond to a touch; (think female snakes becoming more receptive when the male rests his head on her back), but i believe it IS a large jump to confer an emotion connected to this response.

Hurrok · 05-30-13, 05:20 PM

No matter what people tell me I still know and believe that snakes can express themselves through affection. No, they aren't humans, dogs or cats, but remember, people used to think that of them as well. Now look at how "stupid" they are for thinking such things.

smy_749 · 05-30-13, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurrok

No matter what people tell me I still know and believe that snakes can express themselves through affection. No, they aren't humans, dogs or cats, but remember, people used to think that of them as well. Now look at how "stupid" they are for thinking such things.

Cats and dogs have been domesticated over centuries, maybe thousands of years. And again, please don't compare the brain of a cat or a dog to that of a reptile, apples and oranges. I can't say it enough. Do spiders feel affection towards owners as well? They also have brains...

Again like I said, if in the future, something is discovered scientifically proving your claims, than fine, I'm all aboard. However based on what we currently know, I'm not convinced in the slightest. How are you going to prove to me that hes not concerned simply with his own safety? With warm? With whatever....

If your snake was hungry, and big enough to eat you, you wouldn't be seeing any affection.

If anyone here has proof that there snake truly enjoys his company, and can say for sure that he isn't worried about himself and his own well being, please post it here, I'd like to here it. Rubbing your snakes head and it feels nice...sure thats great, maybe its true (I don't think so but who knows), how does this prove affection as well? I can get a massage from the therapist down the street and enjoy it, but I don't think I'm in love with the therapist down the street. Make sense?

MDT · 05-30-13, 05:30 PM

No limbic system in reptilian brain= no affection/attachment..

We are just a big warm blob that occasionally will elevate them out of their enclosure.

possum · 05-30-13, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

No limbic system in reptilian brain= no affection/attachment..

We are just a big warm blob that occasionally will elevate them out of their enclosure.

If that's true then why do they remain tame* & without constant reinforcement? (*and yes, I'm talking about my experience here, since those of you who don't believe they have any 'smarts' predictably don't fare as well in the handling department.) See, I think there's a correlation between our attitudes and theirs. That's my opinion, don't bother getting your panties in a bunch over it.

**Aaron_S** · 05-30-13, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possum

If that's true then why do they remain tame* & without constant reinforcement? (*and yes, I'm talking about my experience here, since those of you who don't believe they have any 'smarts' predictably don't fare as well in the handling department.) See, I think there's a correlation between our attitudes and theirs. That's my opinion, don't bother getting your panties in a bunch over it.

I'm not going to go far into this debate but because I'm really trying not to get into any.

BUT...it IS true. Just because you don't want to go do some research or back up your claims doesn't mean you have any sort of leg to stand on at this point. Science has proven you wrong...when it proves you right, then we can discuss your opinion.

I'd say they stay "tame" because they don't consider us a threat or a food item. That's entirely the reason.

I don't handle my snakes very much. I have ones that can tolerate tons of handling, some that tolerate a little and very few that tolerate none. All are kept the same and fed the same. Some just see me as a threat, others don't.

My attitude doesn't change with any of them, yet some were as calm as can be from babies and some were not.

For the record, I don't get why the people that believe the current facts are "close minded". Shouldn't YOU be open minded that you're just wrong and that in OUR readings we discovered this?

SnakeyJay · 05-31-13, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possum

If that's true then why do they remain tame* & without constant reinforcement? (*and yes, I'm talking about my experience here, since those of you who don't believe they have any 'smarts' predictably don't fare as well in the handling department.)

Well that's a funny one... I'm a full believer in the FACT that reptilian brains do not support the ability to form these emotions, and yet I haven't been bitten by any of my snakes so far in 4 years.

My gf has been bitten so that throws out the argument that my snakes aren't inclined to bite anyway. Yesterday I had to open my male boas mouth too have a look, I released him while still handling him and he didn't bite. Does this mean he loves me and enjoys me handling him?

smy_749 · 05-31-13, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possum

If that's true then why do they remain tame* & without constant reinforcement? (*and yes, I'm talking about my experience here, since those of you who don't believe they have any 'smarts' predictably don't fare as well in the handling department.) See, I think there's a correlation between our attitudes and theirs. That's my opinion, don't bother getting your panties in a bunch over it.

I've only kept one snake with a serious attitude. Albino cali king that bit everything for no reason. Other than that all my snake have always ranges from tolerant to cuddly/snuggly/lovey dovey.

And I only handle my reptiles when I'm doing cage maintenance of some sort, or checking up on them.

Tame and domesticated go hand in hand usually, according to most dictionaries. Care to explain how snakes are domesticated as well? Or if you dont agree , fine, explain to me why some wild caught snakes are 'tame' enough not to bite. WILD snakes. Your snakes remain tame without constant reinforcement has nothing to do with how much they enjoy your company. Seeing a wild snake that isnt nippy destroys your whole taming idea, unless you think jungle people tame them when nobodies looking. Some snakes are bitey, some like to eat, some are chill, and some are schizo. Some will learn to calm down because they arent being eaten , but thats as far as it goes.

How many rattlesnakes mambas and cobras have you tamed and watched TV with? Or are hots incapable of feeling? Practice what you preach and show me your tame vipers, they have brains too

MDT · 05-31-13, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by possum

That's my opinion, don't bother getting your panties in a bunch over it.

my panties remain "bunch-less"...

however, if you want an animal to form attachment, get a mammal.

TheSuppishOne · 05-31-13, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

No limbic system in reptilian brain= no affection/attachment..

We are just a big warm blob that occasionally will elevate them out of their enclosure.

I'm perfectly okay with this. Though I might add to it...

We are just a big, non-threatening, warm blob that occasionally will elevate them out of their enclosure and give them food.

I think they can perceive threat/predator or not, and if they eventually recognize our heat signature or scent as a "comfortable" one, that is all the affection I need.

KORBIN5895 · 05-30-13, 08:42 PM

Stupidity reigns.....