Rescued Nile Monitor. Need advice. - Page 2

varanus_mad · 01-14-13, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

I'll be honest, to me it seems like they should be able to also. However I don't have much experience with beardeds, I've only had mine for about a year now.

I know a few keepers who keep uros and beardeds identical to the way they keep there monitors...

Im yet to hear of them report on any issues of impaction or any other miscellanous problems.

Pirarucu · 01-14-13, 12:03 PM

If the animal is properly hydrated and has sufficient basking temperatures, impaction is a myth.
My brother's Uromastyx has a basking temperature of ~200F, and was kept on nothing but playsand until recently. No impactions, and it wasn't even well hydrated. The substrate was finally changed when I convinced my brother to actually listen to his animal, which was spending almost all of its time in its underground cork log, and had some problems with its toes. Now it is on a moist clay-filled soil, which it promptly burrowed in.

infernalis · 01-14-13, 12:23 PM

I have seen my monitors ingest mouths full of sandy dirt, they just make really dirty poop.

If there is insufficient internal moisture to digest properly, things get stuck.

With a well lubed (hydrated) digestive tract, stuff passes through as it should.

Vegasarah · 01-14-13, 03:03 PM

Thanks everyone for the advice. To answer someones question, I am part of other forums where I have seen sand inpaction in a variety of tortoises, bearded dragons, and even blue tongue skinks. I have seen documentation if all three of these species dying because of it. Yes, they may have had other improper husbandry issues that caused this to happen. But my question is why take the risk? I guss if it would be detrimental to the monitor to not be on sand, I would go ahead and change it. This is a personal preference, and I'm certainly not saying that anyone who uses sand is wrong. I was just excited at the idea that I could use something other than sand with no ill effects. So what you all are saying now is that the peat / soil mix would not work? Just trying to be clear, thanks everyone.

So no comments on the humid hide? Lol everyone got caught up in my sand sentence and no one said anything about my hide haha. Any advice or help with that is much appreciated!

I'm going to try feeding some monitor bites just for supplementation and a pinkie for food today. I will let everyone know how it goes

jarich · 01-14-13, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegasarah

Thanks everyone for the advice. To answer someones question, I am part of other forums where I have seen sand inpaction in a variety of tortoises, bearded dragons, and even blue tongue skinks. I have seen documentation if all three of these species dying because of it. Yes, they may have had other improper husbandry issues that caused this to happen. But my question is why take the risk? I guss if it would be detrimental to the monitor to not be on sand, I would go ahead and change it. This is a personal preference, and I'm certainly not saying that anyone who uses sand is wrong. I was just excited at the idea that I could use something other than sand with no ill effects. So what you all are saying now is that the peat / soil mix would not work? Just trying to be clear, thanks everyone.

So no comments on the humid hide? Lol everyone got caught up in my sand sentence and no one said anything about my hide haha. Any advice or help with that is much appreciated!

I'm going to try feeding some monitor bites just for supplementation and a pinkie for food today. I will let everyone know how it goes

I do not think the peat/soil mix will work as well, no.

With the sand/soil substrate, the humid hide becomes a moot point. They will burrow out a humid hide themselves in the substrate that stays as humid as anything you might build them. What you were describing is often used for a nesting box however. So depending on if you have a female or not, it might be useful in the future.

Vegasarah · 01-14-13, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

With the sand/soil substrate, the humid hide becomes a moot point. They will burrow out a humid hide themselves in the substrate that stays as humid as anything you might build them. What you were describing is often used for a nesting box however. So depending on if you have a female or not, it might be useful in the future.

Thanks, that is a good point. Would he start burrowing right away as a baby?

I will do the 50/50 sand and soil in the 8x2x2. Obviously that would only leave a foot for walking around etc. Could I sort of bank the substrate up on one side and have it be a little more shallow on the other? That way the deep end can be like 18 inches or more but he still has some space to move around on the other side or climb or whatever.

Pirarucu · 01-14-13, 04:19 PM

I do not believe the peat would aid in holding a burrow, and would advise mixing in some sand. 50/50 sand/soil isn't as sandy as it sounds. It's important to note that we are not talking about just digging a hole as I believe tortoises do. Monitors will construct a system of burrows throughout the cage.
All in all it depends on the soil you're using. If you're digging up your own, you may be able to find some soil that will hold a burrow as it is. Other times you will need to mix in some sand to help it hold a burrow. Store bought soil will usually need to have sand added.
The basic test is to get it moist and ball it up. It should clump and stick together easily. Once you have a ball of dirt, jab your thumb into it. It should crumble right away.
If you are searching for a spot to dig some up, look for a spot free of chemicals with lots of fire ant mounds. The dirt fire ants like is invariably perfect for monitors.

Yes, he will probably start burrowing right away, though you may not see the entrances. They can be good at disguising them.. Yes you could do that, but bear in mind he may rearrange it to some degree.

War Machine · 01-14-13, 05:39 PM

8x2x2 is no where the right space, but will do for now

PLEASE follow through with the sand/soil. It is crucial to Monitor care.

As far as ingesting it, my albigs generally tong feed, but sometimes they whip (soaking wet) rats around and it escapes them then gets covered in dirt, Dozens of times, not one issue. The key is temps, VERY hot temps.

Oh, enjoy this, and you new found "friend" :P

Feral Niles - YouTube

Vegasarah · 01-14-13, 06:20 PM

Okay, thanks for the advice. Yeah tortoises just kind of dig a deep long hole with one entrance. The picture that Wayne posted about the 'ball' of soil was helpful, I know what I'm going for now as far as consistency.

I'm glad I was able to take him out of the situation he was in, but I want to provide him with the best care I can. I'm probably not going to keep this guy for the rest of his life, but I will be constructing his adult sized enclosure and will only adopt him out to someone who I deem responsible. Obviously the enclosure will go with him, along with all the knowledge on how to care for him. I've done rescues before and I am picky about who I adopt to. So I will probably keep him for a little while to get him where he needs to be health-wise and enclosure-wise and then start putting out feelers to people I know in the reptile world. Or I might get too attached, which is a very real possibility because he is just really cool

He didn't seem interested in the monitor bites or the pinkie. I even tried walking away for about an hour and still nothing. So I took out the pinkie and bites and then tried very slowly feeding him some dubia roaches from tongs. At first he was just angry and defensive, but I just kept my hand in there very still and just talked to him quietly and then he calmed down. He was checking out my hand, smelling it and I was afraid he was going to try and take a bite out of it but he didn't. Then I loosened the grip on the dubia so it started to move. THAT caught his eye! He sniffed at it for a second and then very carefully took it from the tongs. Munched it down in a flash! I kept talking to him, I do want to make the association that me and my voice and smell = yummies! So I tried another dubia and he had already got the message! He wasn't so slow on that one, he grabbed it and started thrashing it on the ground! He took four more from me and pounded them down. I then kept my hand resting in his cage for a minute, not touching him or anything, just so he could see it and smell it. He calmed down after the food and sprawled out in the basking spot, not paying my hand much mind. Slowly took out my hand and went to my job!

I've never had a pet who's flight or fight instinct is ALWAYS FIGHT! I love it, it's very entertaining. All my other guys would rather just ran away if they don't feel like being handled. This little fire cracker is ready to take me on! So cool! I'm going to try feeding the pinkie from the tongs tonight and see if he will take it then. Hopefully today or tomorrow I'll get a good fecal from him and get it to the lab.

The 8x2x2 is now cleaned out and ready to go, I just need to get the soil and sand tomorrow. I'm assuming that I can get what I need from Home Depot? I'm not going to dig up my yard, and I live in a city so I have no idea what has and has not been treated with pesticides or fertilizers. I'm going to have to buy both from the store, so what does everyone recommend? Play sand, but should I just get regular old top soil or is there something better? Brand names or descriptions are much appreciated. Thanks!

dinosaurdammit · 01-14-13, 06:27 PM

If no one has mentioned this:

LEAVE IT ALONE. Dont try and handle it, dont try to touch/bother/molest it. Best thing that can happen for it is its left alone, caged right, and left the hell alone.

Vegasarah · 01-14-13, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Machine

8x2x2 is no where the right space, but will do for now

PLEASE follow through with the sand/soil. It is crucial to Monitor care.

As far as ingesting it, my albigs generally tong feed, but sometimes they whip (soaking wet) rats around and it escapes them then gets covered in dirt, Dozens of times, not one issue. The key is temps, VERY hot temps.

Oh, enjoy this, and you new found "friend" :P

Feral Niles - YouTube

Thanks, I know that the 8x2x2 is not going to be big enough, but it's all I can do for right now. I'm trying to get the adult enclosure built ASAP, but I'm a broke college student so it's going to take a little time. I'm going with the sand/soil, if you guys say there are no issues the I trust you!

I've started the tong feeding, it's also my preference when feeding all my reptiles to be honest. It helps with accidental substrate ingestion, plus it's cool lol. I like interacting with my guys this way.

That's pretty much how he acts now, it's pretty crazy. It's really awesome, though. Thanks for sharing that video. Great example of how NOT tame they usually are. And so big, they can do so much damage if they want to. They definitely deserve respect.

Vegasarah · 01-14-13, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaurdammit

If no one has mentioned this:

LEAVE IT ALONE. Dont try and handle it, dont try to touch/bother/molest it. Best thing that can happen for it is its left alone, caged right, and left the hell alone.

I'm not going to ever try to pick it up or even touch it. Not only would he probably take a bite out of me, I don't want to stress him at all. As soon as he starts posturing or tail curling I just say "Okay, good boy." and stand up and walk out of the room. I would never want to cause him stress for personal enjoyment, that's not what I'm about. I doubt anyone with real love for reptiles and experience would say otherwise. If I wanted something to tame and love I would have rescued a puppy

dinosaurdammit · 01-14-13, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegasarah

I'm not going to ever try to pick it up or even touch it. Not only would he probably take a bite out of me, I don't want to stress him at all. As soon as he starts posturing or tail curling I just say "Okay, good boy." and stand up and walk out of the room. I would never want to cause him stress for personal enjoyment, that's not what I'm about. I doubt anyone with real love for reptiles and experience would say otherwise. If I wanted something to tame and love I would have rescued a puppy

I just know from watching some people locally that they think "if i force handle it enough it will HAVE to like me", no- no it wont, it will hold a grudge and if it lives and if it gets big enough it will maul you.

infernalis · 01-14-13, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegasarah

If I wanted something to tame and love I would have rescued a puppy

Standing ovation...!!!

Vegasarah · 01-14-13, 07:52 PM

Okay, got another question. After doing some scouring and searching around about lighting/ heat I keep seeing this popping up:

"Leave the basking lights on 24/7! Many successful breeders do this."

I'm really suspicious of this... so then I start a google search and it's popping up everywhere. Is this a real thing??? If so, that's kind of awesome because it means that I don't have to go crazy on the CHE's trying to heat the enclosure at night! I can't imagine this not being harmful to the monitor? Do they not benefit from a 'cool down' period at night and darkness to help them regulate themselves as they would in the wild? This is so fascinating to me, I hope I can get some answers on this before tonight so I know what to do!