First snake! Meet my bull snake Ragnar! - Page 2

**Aaron_S** · 09-29-12, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleely

...i don't like imported snakes, but catching native wild ones, that seem happy in captivity, are perfectly fine with me. i like him!

Why the difference?

Both are taking them from the wild and putting them in unnatural conditions.

Ragnar · 09-29-12, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Why the difference?

Both are taking them from the wild and putting them in unnatural conditions.

Good sir! I take minor offense to calling where my serpent is currently taking residence "unnatural"! Forsooth, mine newest acquisition has retired to the very same earth from whence he came not a fortnight ago! True, that earth is now under cover of man made shelter and confined to a glass container, but doth this trivial matter make any real manner of consequence? Nay!

infernalis · 09-29-12, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Why the difference?

Both are taking them from the wild and putting them in unnatural conditions.

Exactly...

Every year thousands of baby ball pythons are shipped over and sold for $20 a pop to whatever idiot wants one.

Seems quite hypocritical to me all the "put it back" posts I keep seeing from people who keep captive snakes.

Even your fancy morphs started out as wild caught animals.

Ragnar · 09-29-12, 11:33 PM

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Exactly...

Every year thousands of baby ball pythons are shipped over and sold for $20 a pop to whatever idiot wants one.

Seems quite hypocritical to me all the "put it back" posts I keep seeing from people who keep captive snakes.

Even your fancy morphs started out as wild caught animals.

It's a bit of a fine line with a case like mine I think. To be perfectly honest if the vet visit found him to be a sickly specimen, I would have released him back at the spot I took him from and let mother nature take her course. I dont see the fore mentioned hypothetical to necessarily be the wrong decision.

However, if you are supporting the en masse capture and trade of wild animals, or the captive breeding of an animal for sale to the general public, it is most certainly your duty to ensure the health and well being of the life you have paid for.

infernalis · 09-29-12, 11:56 PM

I think you misunderstood me.. I don't really care for the mass import of animals.

I may have jumped the gun, but usually whenever someone comes on the boards with a snake they caught, we get like a dozen posts from people who say "put it back"

give the thread a couple days. weekends are kind of quiet on here.

Ragnar · 09-30-12, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I think you misunderstood me.. I don't really care for the mass import of animals.

I may have jumped the gun, but usually whenever someone comes on the boards with a snake they caught, we get like a dozen posts from people who say "put it back"

give the thread a couple days. weekends are kind of quiet on here.

Ah yes, I re-read your previous post with the proper context and I understand your meaning. Sorry, I've been up far too long and it's causing me a bit of confusion. Also - on a completely unrelated note - I've noticed I talk like a knight in king Arthur's court much too often when I've been deprived of sleep this long. Curious, that

Lankyrob · 09-30-12, 06:48 AM

I am off the "put it back" school of thought - whilst all snakes in captivity orignated from those caught in the wild in this day and age with the multitude of breeders of pretty much every species there is no need to remove from the wild at all in my opinion.

I would never keep a wildcaught animal, all of my reptiles are CBB and this will continue until the day i die.

Ragnar · 09-30-12, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

I am off the "put it back" school of thought - whilst all snakes in captivity orignated from those caught in the wild in this day and age with the multitude of breeders of pretty much every species there is no need to remove from the wild at all in my opinion.

I would never keep a wildcaught animal, all of my reptiles are CBB and this will continue until the day i die.

Keeping him fat and happy is better than he ending up as dinner for a hawk or cut in half by a bicycle tire or any other of the huge number of reasons why juvie snakes die (especially those who live in the city, such as the one I caught), not to mention I get have the fun of taking care of him.

Lankyrob · 09-30-12, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Keeping him fat and happy is better than he ending up as dinner for a hawk or cut in half by a bicycle tire or any other of the huge number of reasons why juvie snakes die (especially those who live in the city, such as the one I caught), not to mention I get have the fun of taking care of him.

Its for your benefit only, the snake knows no difference, at least be honest about it, all the benefits are for you - cheap snake, pleasure if keeping etc etc, there are no real benefits to the snake only ones that are perceived by you, there is no way of knowing if that snake would have been the one that lived a nice long healthy life in the wild instead of in a exponentially smaller enclosure.

**millertime89** · 09-30-12, 05:38 PM

I'm with Rob, I support restricted and monitored capture and importation of wild individuals but for species that there are a plethora of breeders there really is no need. This particular individual seems to be bucking the trend, he's seemingly docile, not riddled with parasites, and eating, not all w/c individuals take to captivity that readily which is part of why I'm against it. Congrats on your new pet. I hope you have many long years with him.

jaleely · 09-30-12, 06:43 PM

Aaron, to me, difference is...walking out in your yard and picking up a snake, who probably couldn't care less if it was in a tank or out in the wild...vs the method in which they mass gather, pack, and ship overseas animals.
Overall, i can't agree with the conditions in which those wild animals are gathered and shipped out.
But, i have to be honest and it depends on the case, locally, for me. In this case the snake seems perfectly fine being a captive animal.
if it was rubbing it's nose, freaking out, hissing and trying to get away, well then i'd say it wants to stay a wild animal.
At least if its a local capture that can be determined and handled appropriately.

I've never caught a wild snake, but i *know* me and if it was cute, and not angry, then id' probably keep it...so i can't judge others for something i wouldn't be able to stop myself from doing *lol*
if it seemed miserable in any way, i'd release it back where i found it though.

The imports don't have a choice : (

**Aaron_S** · 09-30-12, 07:28 PM

For me, I'm in the "not keeping native local fauna" camp. Here in Ontario we aren't allowed to collection ANY reptile or amphibian without a permit, which is only given to those who educate, such as zoos.

I think it's for the reason that we shouldn't dwindle the wild population here in Ontario of quality animals that could go on to lead a healthy life and make offspring that are also healthy.

We can talk about my morphs or foreign animals all we want. I know it's kind of hypocritical but for a morph all we do is bring in the ONE specimen and make copies of it from the other animals we've had in captivity.

I find it rather disturbing that it's OKAY to take healthy animals from the wild because it's healthy and acclimated well and return the sick one to the wild to "let nature takes it course". Apparently, we should only allow the most UN-fit to survive and possibly procreate. /boggle.

jaleely · 09-30-12, 07:53 PM

ah, i would take a sick one home in a heartbeat, to try to treat it.
I wouldn't return it at all.
I meant i would return a clearly distressed and unhappy one.

I actually don't really like the idea of keeping them from the wild at all, but...i just KNOW me and i know that i WOULD keep a sick one, a cute one, a baby, a nice one, etc. lol
so, i can't judge those who do.

And of course all the ones i have originated from wild, and imports. But, that doesn't mean i think we should *still* import them.

I could see how if i had laws in the area for permits and stuff though, i'd probably have a different thought process.

PM Aaron.

**Aaron_S** · 09-30-12, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleely

ah, i would take a sick one home in a heartbeat, to try to treat it.
I wouldn't return it at all.
I meant i would return a clearly distressed and unhappy one.

I actually don't really like the idea of keeping them from the wild at all, but...i just KNOW me and i know that i WOULD keep a sick one, a cute one, a baby, a nice one, etc. lol
so, i can't judge those who do.

And of course all the ones i have originated from wild, and imports. But, that doesn't mean i think we should *still* import them.

I could see how if i had laws in the area for permits and stuff though, i'd probably have a different thought process.

PM Aaron.

To each their own.

PM Melissa.

Ragnar · 10-01-12, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I find it rather disturbing that it's OKAY to take healthy animals from the wild because it's healthy and acclimated well and return the sick one to the wild to "let nature takes it course". Apparently, we should only allow the most UN-fit to survive and possibly procreate. /boggle.

For me it'd be a simple dollars and cents decision to let a sickly animal go back to living out his life in the wild VS droppin mad stacks for vet bills and medications with no guarantee of recovery.

The population of Bulls here is large and healthy with the government sanctioning the collection of them for "personal use". I doubt a few people here and there catching a Bully is going to upset their natural balance as a species in even the slightest degree.