Advice on New BP Home - Page 2

Lankyrob · 04-13-12, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykee

The pressure!!!!

Ok, some keepers keep their reptiles in larger enclosures (i.e. Lanky) and if they provide enough hides and perfect husbandry, they can work out perfectly. I personally keep my ball pythons in Rubbermaids, but when you have over 120, space is an issue.
Many breeders keep their ball pythons in the underbed Rubbermaids (16X33X6 which is the same floor space as a 30-33 gallon aquarium.
Whatever works for you, I refuse to debate this issue, I could honestly care less about what type of enclosure YOU use, all MY ball pythons are happy how they live.
Keep in mind husbandry is the primary concern with any new enclosure.

Couldnt agree more with any part of this

Having no interest or intention of ever breeding all my snakes are pets and i like A) giving them the biggest space practical and B) having them all out on display. I totally understand why breeders use tubs and racks and have no argument with those that do - just not for me

Snakefood · 04-13-12, 01:54 PM

thanks Mykee

jaleely · 04-13-12, 08:59 PM

I agree with lankyrob as i'm not a breeder.

But mykee...you "could" care less? tisk tisk!! Well if that's the case, we SHOULD debate it more....muwhaha!

Anyway...was talking to a sand boa breeder the other day about racks. I could see using a rack for a few of my snakes that don't seem to care about having room. When provided with it, they just pick a spot and stay there. However, i do have a few (of each species for both cases) where they roam around, crawl on branches....i even have one of my royals that loves to hang on a branch like he thinks he's an arboreal. Go figure!
If you only plan on having a few snakes though, i say go for the show and give them space to move around and be looked at.

Gungirl · 04-14-12, 05:57 AM

The only advice I will give is no matter the size of the enclosure it is easier and makes the snake happier 99% of the time to not be kept in a glass fish tank. If you can get your hands on a wooden viv or even a plastic tub your snake will typically be calmer and more willing to eat. However if you have to use a glass tank a 30-40 gallon is fine just use fabric or paint and cover 3 sides of the glass to offer security and also cover most of your screen top to control humidity. A 40 gallon is more than enough room for a Royal.

jarich · 04-14-12, 12:32 PM

Wow, Mykee you actually gave some advice AND almost made it an entire post without spouting bile. You must be tired!

Like Rob mentioned, depending on your goal, and level of experience, there are different recommended set ups. If you plan on having lots, or don't have a lot of time or motivation to spend on each enclosure, then go smaller (like a 30 gallon tub or even less). If what you want is a show enclosure or you have the time to set up and clean a more elaborate enclosure, then go as big as you want. I have mine in a a 90 gallon, and it uses every inch of that. And that includes the branches/vertical space too.

mykee · 04-14-12, 01:12 PM

Jaleely, I keep all of my sand boa males in shoebox Rubbermaids their entire lives and females until they are about 200 grams. The females get bumped up to #2221 Rubbermaids (16X23X6) after 200g.

USMCgunner11 · 04-14-12, 02:16 PM

I agree on the 4x2x2 if you can afford the space. Anything larger is a waste. You can go smaller but your snake will benefit in an enclosure of that size. To answer your question about Exo-Terra tanks, I wouldn't bother with them. I abandoned all-glass tanks a long time ago and won't go back. They are more difficult to heat and maintain humidity in. A plastic or wood enclosure is what you should be looking at.

You can build one yourself which doesn't require much. You could get "how to" directions from google or this site. Or a local reptile shop should stock something like that. My local shop carries decent quality melamine tanks for about $175.

infernalis · 04-14-12, 02:27 PM

I use a 55 gallon tank with a plywood top, but then again, I heat the whole room because of all the other animals, so what works for one person, may not work for another.

mykee · 04-14-12, 04:16 PM

Quote:

"I agree on the 4x2x2 if you can afford the space. Anything larger is a waste. You can go smaller but your snake will benefit in an enclosure of that size."

Lol!
"Benefit" how?

Live longer?
Eat better?
Breed more prolifically?
Produce more eggs?
Be "happier"?
Smile more?
Be less aggressive?

Please explain, I'm sitting on pins and needles.

jarich · 04-14-12, 05:47 PM

Not that Im inclined to care where you sit, Mykee, but I think Ill try to field your sarcasm here. The problem is, Im not sure you'd understand. Do you know what an adrenal gland is? Do you know the basics of developmental neurobiology? How about the importance and function of corticosteroids?

Lets simplify. If someone were to kidnap you, would you prefer they locked you in just the bathroom or locked you in your house with access to all the rooms? If just locked in your tiny bathroom you could still eat, sleep, reproduce and live a relatively long time. I bet, however, that you would chose to have the run of the larger space to stretch your legs and have at least some small semblance of variety, enrichment and exercise.

History is full of people who thought that animals only needed this or that limited scope. Pick up a book and look at the zoo research going on presently. Time and time again we are finding that our arrogance in husbandry and our lack of further understanding is hindering the full development of nearly all animals in captivity. The ones we don't know about are usually just the ones who haven't been studied enough yet. Your local zoo probably has given prozac to its bears, or anti depressants to the marmosets, or enclosure enrichment to the monitor lizards. How long do you think its going to be until we smarten up and see that this applies to all animals?

USMCgunner11 · 04-14-12, 09:31 PM

I'm glad you beat me to it with that analogy because that is exactly where I was headed. An inmate may survive in a small cell with the basic necessities but is that a healthy way to live? I think not. Sure they can survive with less but that doesn't mean that they enjoy it that way

mykee · 04-14-12, 10:18 PM

LOL!!!
Are you two actually comparing a human to a reptilian brain?!

USMCgunner11 · 04-14-12, 10:26 PM

Just providing you with an analogy. We aren't stating that they experience the world the same way we do. Just that they arent completely apathetic to the environment we choose to provide them. If you cannot understand these comparisons and continue to focus on the wrong points please let us know, I'll have my daughter draw a diagram for you with her crayons.

Lankyrob · 04-15-12, 08:37 AM

Snakes need heat, food, water and security anything else in their enclosure is more for our benefit than theirs.

Snakefood · 04-15-12, 09:43 AM

ya, sorry I'm going with Mykee and Rob here. Your daughter can draw all the diagrams she wants to and it won't change the fact that snakes have what is called the primal brain and that's it.

So long as they have a place where they feel safe, have a food source and the correct conditions for heat and humidity, they are good. They don't have the capacity to care or think about anything else.

The example given about the zoos is a good one, were we talking about other mammals, who have the "mammalian" brain. They do have the parts of the brain that CAN think about being caged, therefore they can be affected BY captivity.

In the "primal" brain, it is all instinct. "fight or flight" ,"eat or be eaten", "find a safe, warm place to hide"