Snuggling Kings...

[a153fish]

Originally Posted by Kingsnakechris

Yeah I don't have to much experience but I just introduce my female to my males tub and watch for an hour or so then after I'm sure they had a lock it's back to their own enclosures

Yeah John is right. Mexicana, and Pyros, are not the same as the Common kings, like the Cali, or the Florida, or the Chain, or the Speckled. You get the idea, lol. They can be housed together but you have to know what your doing, and even then there is always a risk of canibolism. I have all my florida Kings together in breeding groups and pairs. But I know what the risk is.

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Kingsnakechris

Yeah I don't have to much experience but I just introduce my female to my males tub and watch for an hour or so then after I'm sure they had a lock it's back to their own enclosures

Most cannibalistic snake deaths are due to the snakes having never seen each other before......If they "know" each other attacks will not occur.....

Again...this is just the way I do it and I am not telling anyone else they should.

I do not keep hatchling to yearling snakes together. These snakes are growing and learning. They will try to kill/eat anything that moves.

By their second winter I cool the brumation chamber down to 50F. When the kings clear their stomachs I place them in the chamber for a day then I place them together. A king will not want to eat a very large meal (another snake) when temps are 50F.

The pairs and trios are never separated after they are introduced that second winter....Some kings grow slower and will not be paired up until the third winter.....

Many kingsnake breeders do this...contrary to the internet caresheets and TFH books' warnings......Bob Applegate, Frank Retes, European breeders, myself and numerous others........

There's more than one way to achieve your desired goals while keeping these captives.......And this is how I do......

The only time I had a female king kill a male king was back in the late 90s when I did not keep them together. After that I was way more careful and watched everything closely. In the last 3 years or so, after applying some husbandry techniques I started co-habitating them.......

[Trollbie]

Do snakes remember their siblings?

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

No and I probably won't. He is a goini king and there is a local breeder here in town.
I have posted about his psyco feeding response on here before. Maybe he would be ok with a female but like I said he is nuts and tries to eat anything that moves on feeding day. He sometimes strikes out from under his substrate hitting the glass on his enclosure just when I walk by. I feed him well and he is still a nut. This is actually my favorite thing about him. Crazy snake!!! Love it!!

Here's what I see in your reply.....

"feeding day"

I think your snake is hungry in between YOUR feeding days.
Feed him on his feeding days.....

If your snake is on the cool side of his enclosure he will feed.....

And how much do you feed it? I'd try 3 or 4 small adult mice on an adult goini....

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Trollbie

Do snakes remember their siblings?

I don't know if there are any studies done on this or how the studies can be done, but I breed siblings together all the time........lol

They do hatch at different times and leave the nest....I don't think siblings ever "know" one another........Inbreeding occurs in nature all the time....especially with isolate populations.....

[Trollbie]

I ask because the pet store still has her brother

[Trollbie]

Also, I have a snuggly milk snake today

[Terranaut]

Originally Posted by Jlassiter

Here's what I see in your reply.....

"feeding day"

I think your snake is hungry in between YOUR feeding days.
Feed him on his feeding days.....

If your snake is on the cool side of his enclosure he will feed.....

And how much do you feed it? I'd try 3 or 4 small adult mice on an adult goini....

He eats every Sunday. He gets a rat pup the size of about 3 mice. He 99% of the time poops the day before. The person I got him from had been feeding him 2 adult mice once a week for more than 5 yrs and I upped it by switching to rats. He didn't shed once the first 5 months I had him but after switching him to rats he sheds about every 12 weeks. Honnestly he is well taken care of and just a freak. Like I said this is not a bad quality in my mind. He is just being a king!!

[Jlassiter]

K...cool.....

[Trollbie]

So if the snake is on the cool side, I should try feeding?

Penelope is always all over the place. She goes back and forth between her warm hide and her cool hide, and sometimes she's buried in the aspen. She changes positions and places pretty often.

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Trollbie

So if the snake is on the cool side, I should try feeding?

Penelope is always all over the place. She goes back and forth between her warm hide and her cool hide, and sometimes she's buried in the aspen. She changes positions and places pretty often.

Pay attention to your feeding schedule and what she is doing to see the connection between thermalregulating....

Only if you have a good thermal gradient........90F hot side.....Room temp (72F) cool side........kings use the hot side to digest their meals and for other bodily functions.
With a good setup you can see if your king is digesting or conserving. They are conserving when on the cool side and will take a meal.....This is not "powerfeeding" it is just the optimal way in my opinion.

You will see smaller snakes that eat smaller prey digest their prey more quickly.....Larger snakes that do not have much growth left use their meals to sustain, not grow...Plus their prey items are larger and take longer to digest.....They typically want to eat weekly..sometimes more, sometimes less.......

[Trollbie]

I've been feeding her one adult mouse once a week. A153fish suggested I feed her more than one because she's very active, but since she shed, it seems like she's calmer. I'm sure she's still active, but I don't see it as much. (probably because I'm not home much ) So since she seems calmer, I haven't tried feeding her more than one yet.

The ~2 days after she eats she isn't very active and spends most of her time in her warm hide, but last time I went to pick her up on the third day after she ate, she still had a significant bulge. But she was in her cool side hide. Her cool side is unfortunately in the 60s, because my room is cold, but her warm side is around 85-90 and the middle of the tank is around 70. But she still likes to be on the very cool end sometimes.

Is it horrible that her cool end is less than 70? The days are getting warmer here, so my room is gonna be warmer too. I just don't get any house heat in my room.

[Kingsnakechris]

Thank you for the info! I really appreciate it! I'm new to breeding and every bit of information is incredibly helpful. So just out of curiosity, my female cal kings enclosure s right next to my males enclosure, would you say that constitutes as them "getting to know each other? I only ask because it makes sense ( if that makes sense..lol). Also how important is brumation? The person I bought these guys from said she cooled the male but the female wasn't quite big enough to breed this season, I have been putting weight on her for awhile now and would like to attempt a shot this season but not b putting either of my snakes at risk. Could they still breed without brumation??

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Trollbie

I've been feeding her one adult mouse once a week. A153fish suggested I feed her more than one because she's very active, but since she shed, it seems like she's calmer. I'm sure she's still active, but I don't see it as much. (probably because I'm not home much ) So since she seems calmer, I haven't tried feeding her more than one yet.

The ~2 days after she eats she isn't very active and spends most of her time in her warm hide, but last time I went to pick her up on the third day after she ate, she still had a significant bulge. But she was in her cool side hide. Her cool side is unfortunately in the 60s, because my room is cold, but her warm side is around 85-90 and the middle of the tank is around 70. But she still likes to be on the very cool end sometimes.

Is it horrible that her cool end is less than 70? The days are getting warmer here, so my room is gonna be warmer too. I just don't get any house heat in my room.

It is not terrible that the cool side is that cool....
I wish I could achieve 60s on the cool side and 90s on the hot side.....

How deep is the substrate (Aspen?)
Provide a shoebox size container full of moist sphagnum moss too.....set it in the enclosure so that part is on the hot side and the rest on the cool side.......try feeding her when she is on the cool side for a period of time......

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Kingsnakechris

Thank you for the info! I really appreciate it! I'm new to breeding and every bit of information is incredibly helpful. So just out of curiosity, my female cal kings enclosure s right next to my males enclosure, would you say that constitutes as them "getting to know each other? I only ask because it makes sense ( if that makes sense..lol). Also how important is brumation? The person I bought these guys from said she cooled the male but the female wasn't quite big enough to breed this season, I have been putting weight on her for awhile now and would like to attempt a shot this season but not b putting either of my snakes at risk. Could they still breed without brumation??

Calkings can and will breed without a true brumation, but they still need a period of conservation to produce viable sperm and follicles.
I would try it but be very careful as they do not "know" one another by just being next to each other.......and since the female is larger than the male she might see the male as a meal......