adopting / buying venomoids - Page 2

SSSSnakes · 09-07-11, 11:57 PM

I personally don't like venomoids, I have to agree, I don't approve of altering a snake to suit the handler. When I handle snakes I handle them HOT. I also would never train anyone to handle a HOT snake, because I would not want to be responsible for any one getting bit.

I do keep and love Rattlesnakes and agree they are harder to handle than cobras. Rattlesnakes do not like to be on a stick. Handling a rattlesnake in a snake room and handling one outside in the wild are two completely different experiences.

Now, having said that. Where I live a venomoid are still considered venomous by the DEC and requires a license just as a venomous snake. Reason is, you can't always tell a venomoid from a venomous snake. If the operation was not done correctly the snake could also become venomous again at some point without you knowing it.

I have gotten many venomoids given to me after the person found out that they were illegal without the proper licenses. If you really want one, try talking to HOT keepers and I'm sure you will find one eventually. You might want to try venomousreptiles.org.

forkedtongue · 09-07-11, 11:57 PM

You know hat, that might be, I've been around enough hot owners and seen enough posts to know how their attitude towards nonhot owners is, so maybe I was overly defensive. I've survived a bomb going off underneath my truck, being mortared, rockets shot at me, ak47s shot at me, being run over by a stupid *** in a 14 ton truck, I'm going to spend however long I have enjoying my life.

I'm sick of hearing hot owners act like they are some elite corps of people who are above others. Are all of them like that? I'm sure they aren't but most I've met are and I've seen plenty online who act like it. So yeah I guess I'm naturally quick to be defensive, and like I said in a post above, if he didn't mean to be arrogant and preachy, I apologize. I'm not looking for a venomous snake, I'm looking for a venomoid, can deal with getting bit if I mess up. Would I like a true hot? Absolutely, but I have yeaaaaars before my kids are on their own , I think by then ill have eithr figured out the venomoids behavior or have found a mentor, so thank you all who suggested it, I was well aware of the need for one with a venomous animal, I joke with he local shop owner all the time because they have a few vipers on display ad people always ask him how much for one and eventually say they've never even owned a snake ,or if hey did maybe a ball or corn.

I get the seriousness of owning such an animal, and I'm sure said owners have a lot of pride for owning something that can kill you so maybe that's why some that I know are like that. Personally I thank god everytime I make it back from getting groceries as I step out of my car because that thing I do everyday is deadlier than their snake, and I don't talk down to people who get in car accidents, so i guess not understanding some of the hot owners attitudes just makes me defensive and hostile.

With all that said, ill gladly apologize again to kd35 if he didn't mean it the way I took it, but its text on. Screen, its fairly easy to misunderstand peoples meaning and attitude online.

----edit note , Galaxy S android is the worst phone in the world, dont ever own one, or you will type like a 3rd grader---

forkedtongue · 09-08-11, 12:10 AM

I understand completely Ssssnakes, I hate when people hurt or worse kill a snake, when I would go to my cottage up north every summer as a kid, I would sneak across the channel to my neighbors edge of the lake and catch all the water snakes and garters I could find and bring them to my side or else I would have to watch all the kids my age running up and down the shore with shovels to kill them all.

That is the main reason i was looking for adoptions OR buying (i dont mind spending the money) from someone who ALREADY owned one that was properly venomoided.

I know there are probably alot of half #@$ed attempts out there (and that both saddens me and terrifies me) and is the reason I would not accept or buy one without proper documentation that I can verify through whoever performed it.

as far as the permits go, I did read off VenomoidInc's website that my state requires no permits for Native or Exotic venomous species, they do however require permit for Native Endangered (which means native since Michigan's only native is listed as Threatened) and as much as I would LOVE to one day have a pair of native Michigan rattlesnakes to breed to help keep them going, Im sure it would never happen legally.

I appreciate all the input and regards for safety, I completely agree with you all, and even if what you said doesnt apply to ME in my situation, Someone else might still read this thread who WAS looking into a true HOT and consider seeking a mentor.

Will0W783 · 09-08-11, 05:07 AM

One thing to note- check your city/town laws. Just because hots are allowed in your state doesn't mean they are allowed in your city or town.

forkedtongue · 09-08-11, 09:40 AM

Thanks for the heads up willow, I meant to get ahold of DNR yesterday but just had so much going on. Oh well, no rush, I do like to get all my bases covered and line things up fast, but like I said I've got plenty of tme before I'm actively looking to purchase

KD35WIN.AS.ONE · 09-08-11, 12:57 PM

Most of the people i personally know who keep/have kept venomous snakes are not open enough to even give a newcomer advice. I have two mentors, one is a family friend, hence how i even began working with venomous snakes. I have a third person i dont really consider a mentor but she has a large collection of Tree vipers and i do spend some of my time there. Of my two mentors neither of them are fans of newcomers to venomous snakes, and will voice there opinion's about it if need be. Look at it like this every time a person begins getting involved in keeping venomous snakes on a Personal collection level, there is an increased chance that either them or a family/friend is bitten for what ever reason. This all becomes recorded documentation, which will later be turned on us as venomous snake keepers. The right to own venomous snakes on a personal level isn't going to be around forever in this country...

So yes i understand the community is harsh, sometimes the things i say may come off as harsh. Though i don't feel i did in this instance. I don't feel i am better than anyone.. and even if i did, ownership of exotic venomous reptiles wouldn't be the reason...

Id like to comment on what Sssnakes said:

Quote:

I do keep and love Rattlesnakes and agree they are harder to handle than cobras. Rattlesnakes do not like to be on a stick. Handling a rattlesnake in a snake room and handling one outside in the wild are two completely different experiences.

I agree 100%. Though i would rather a person with lower experience work with a rattlesnake. I still have to say id rather work with any species of Naja any day. To me a cobra's movements and over all demeanor are easier to read then most crotalus. (In my observed cases) Most of the cobra's ive worked with (all species but Ophiophagus hannah, Hemachatus haemachatus, Naja katiensis, or Naja ashei) focus most of there attention and efforts on you as a person instead of being on the stick, and will generally accept getting on to a stick better then most rattlesnakes. I also strongly agree with your point about the difference from handling snakes in an enclosed area oppose to outside.

forkedtongue · 09-12-11, 09:51 PM

I understand alot of what the HOT guys are saying, and I understand the reasons for them. Im just not a fan of being talked down to regardless of the situation.

Ive been putting serious thought into everything since posting this thread, like i said in the beginning im not a fan of hurting snakes, I was interested in getting a venomoid that someone else owned rather than having venomoid produce one.

Ive also taken some advice from other owners, I think Im going to look into a FWC for now, later on once Ive had some fun handling and getting used to that and hopefully found a mentor I would like to move on to a Waglers. Someone mentioned them to me in a PM and since then Ive been reading as much about them as possible, and I think that would be a very good bet for a first true HOT.

Ill put the Crotalus dream on hold for now, its both not possible due to logistics (no venomoids that I can find) and also because my wife cannot stand rattlesnakes, not due to any part of their behavior or venom, she thinks they look scary as hell, she said she'd rather me have a Gabby , since they look pretty LOL. (obviously not getting one, disarm your flame throwers ..)

I appreciate everyone's input, both on here and in PM, and I appreciate everyone bearing with my semi-psycho attitude, I know I have anger issues lol, Im not much of a people person lol.

I hope everyone can forgive my outbursts, I enjoy this community very much, and I dont wish to be a bad apple amongst it.

Cheers.

stephanbakir · 09-12-11, 09:58 PM

If I were you I'd get a Mangrove snake, they are rear fang just like the fwc but are 10 times as agressive and fast, the bite is a pain in the *** but not much worse then the fwc.

SSSSnakes · 09-12-11, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

If I were you I'd get a Mangrove snake, they are rear fang just like the fwc but are 10 times as agressive and fast, the bite is a pain in the *** but not much worse then the fwc.

I have both and the FWC is docile and can be handled, but the Mangrove will take you head off if you don't watch out, especially at night.

RandyRhoads · 09-12-11, 10:26 PM

I'm a firm believer that a hot in a SECURE cage in your house, is safer than a hot in your yard.... (doing yardwork outsite anywhere there are known hots). I'd feel safer using my hots enclosure as a pillow at night then walking through brush in the sierra nevadas...

As long as you've (played with is a bad word) "worked" with that species in the wild and know their behavioural traits. If you're looking into getting something not native, chances are that's illegal. If you are, go out field herping. Use a hook,snake gaitors, and common sense. Watch how it reacts to certain stimulus such as defensive posture, defensive attacks, retreating and such.

I have one hook. I've never had the slightest problem with cage cleanings dealing with 4 pi**ed off NorPacs all in the same enclosure.

forkedtongue · 09-12-11, 10:39 PM

Thanks for the suggestion of the mangroves, ill look into those tonight. Up all day and night now, wife just had our 3rd son on the 11th, so its constant diapers , coffee, and nicotine for me right now. Id be more than happy to learn with an aggressive rear fanged for now, aside from army related injuries doctors always tell me I'm the image of health as far as organs and such, so I suppose what they mean to say is I can afford a few moron moves in the name of learning when it comes to a rearfang (well some of them anyhow, I have zero intention of getting a lethal snake for years, although I know with some peoples reactions any venom could be considered lethal)

Thanks again all

I appreciate your post randy, although after a lot of thought and talking with some people, as well as my recent son, I guess my confident abandon has died off a little. While I don't doubt I can handle a venomoided rattler still, I don't think its the right direction I should take. Ill start at the bottom and work my way up like others have, instead of using the venomoid cheat codes.