integrades and hybrids

[percey39]

On the whole its hard to get a pure dog as well, without paying through the nose like i did not so long ago with my english bully. I seen countless pups and sires, all seemed legit they had papers and proof of petigree. Unless you truely know what you are looking for when trying to find pure bred animals you will be ripped off with dogs, snakes and all animals in general. I believe bird keeping in australia went through this and many left the hobby as you were dealing with so called experts with "pure" bred birds.
It will change the way many of us locality specific snakes and pure lines think about he hobby and im sure we will lose some very reputable breeders because of this. As you will be flooded with statements like "why would i pay this much for a jungle, when i can buy a jungle that is also pure down the road for half the price". We all know that a lot of people that have been around for a while will see through the scum, but its new comers to the hobby that it will hurt the most. People are going to be ripped off, projects will be destroyed, reputable breeders will stop breeding and the ability to keep pure lines of aussie species overseas could be lost once the top breeders leave and take their animals with them.
In no way do i hate hybrids or the people that buy them, i can just see there could be major problems in the future. There is definetely a place for hybrids in the hobby, but as i have said unless there is some control of breeding or law placed on them things could turn nasty.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by percey39

The perceived loss could be said to far out weigh any gains nafun. It would take a long time, but the loss of locale and pure species is a possibility. There will always be breeders who will only breed the pure lines, but the prices will eventually soar for these. Also the market will be flooded with poor looking hybrids, bad quality animals that could perceived as normals by some and may well be sold as that.
I have always wanted to know what people are doing with the less appealing hybrids, as you never really see any one put their hand up and say look what i have produced here. This is where i see the problem has already began, as these dodgy breeders have produced poor quality animals and selling these to newbies or destroying close to whole clutches.
Hybrids are a great thing for the hobby as it will get more people interested in keeping reptiles as some amazing colours/patterns are being produced and will only get better, but they could also destroy it too.

you just described the uk percy.

we're getting lots of jungle/jaguar siblings passed off as PURE jungles.ive lost count of how many threads ive seen on " can you id my carpet " sadly we cant as if you dont know the parents far less the grandparents then their carpet could be made up of any combination.re ugly hatchy's they're getting sold for £30 to £50 and even then imo they are no good for anything other than a pet.lets face it it would defeat the purpose to breed ugly mongeral carpets to produce even more unwanted snakes.

im probaley going to take pelters for what i'm about to say but its the truth so it has to come out.

some people buy something like a black headed python.this is where all the ugly unwanted carpets go mate.into the bhp's dinner menu.i am not guilty of this but it does go on.

i even heard one breeder say oh i just kill the ugly usless ones.for example i said to him this year your trying to produce some diamond/jungle/jaguars what about the siblings you will produce " oh i just kill em "

morelia bloodlines are really bad over here mate.so i hear very clearly what your saying and can sypathise with your plight.

cheers for moving the thread wayne.its a good thread to have up and running on its own.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

If you compare hybirdization to dogs it seems pretty easy to manage. Those animals that have "pedigree" need to show their ancestry to prove that it is so - any other dog is classed as a mongrel and therefore has no paperwork.

As owners/keepers of snakes or dogs we can make an educated choice to take the cheaper non pedigree model or pay more for an animal with proven ancestry.

I realise there are unscrupulous people out there that will falisfiy ancestry records and maybe that is where we need a governing body along the lines of the Kennel Club.

that is a great idea rob but the morelia in europe we're talking about all originated from stuff legally exported from australia before 1982.so any records that may have exsisted are long gone.it would be good to do it your way with anything australia lets out the country today.they could be data chipped with locale's,parental bloodlines,etc.all anyone would need to buy is a chip reading machine.that way when they went to pick up a snake they would just have to scan it and would know its history.unfortuanatley re morelia in europe,its a bit like buying a smoke alarm after your house burns down.as said percey its too late imo over here,i hope your governments got a better plan put in place than the europeans mate.

imagine how bad it would be percy if for example all the natural wild diamonds got their bloodlines poulluted.you would have to ask a zoo from within or outside your country to provide specimans to re populate the wild.their hatchlings would succome to interdrades and you would be back to square one.it is a very scary thought mate...!!
cheers shaun

[percey39]

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

you just described the uk percy.

we're getting lots of jungle/jaguar siblings passed off as PURE jungles.ive lost count of how many threads ive seen on " can you id my carpet " sadly we cant as if you dont know the parents far less the grandparents then their carpet could be made up of any combination.re ugly hatchy's they're getting sold for £30 to £50 and even then imo they are no good for anything other than a pet.lets face it it would defeat the purpose to breed ugly mongeral carpets to produce even more unwanted snakes.

im probaley going to take pelters for what i'm about to say but its the truth so it has to come out.

some people buy something like a black headed python.this is where all the ugly unwanted carpets go mate.into the bhp's dinner menu.i am not guilty of this but it does go on.

i even heard one breeder say oh i just kill the ugly usless ones.for example i said to him this year your trying to produce some diamond/jungle/jaguars what about the siblings you will produce " oh i just kill em "

morelia bloodlines are really bad over here mate.so i hear very clearly what your saying and can sypathise with your plight.

cheers for moving the thread wayne.its a good thread to have up and running on its own.
cheers shaun

I know what your saying mate, I have heard similar stories. We have the same plan your government has, the only thing i fear for over here is people releasing hybrids into wild populations of those species.
There are still pure lines over your way, but i would imagine that prices would be 5 times the amount of others.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by percey39

I know what your saying mate, I have heard similar stories.

with one of these no one wants hatchy's the way its seems to be looked at is.

if i feed it for 3 or 4 months i will have spent more on food and heating than the snake will ever be worth.on top of that the hatchy's take up a lot of space that could be used for more desirable snakes.so you may get only 5 jags out a clutch of 15,that seems to equal 10 snakes being got rid of a.s.a.p. and the 5 jags being kept or put up for sale.

for the record i neither practise these methods or agree with them.

as harsh as this may sound to you mate.i think the answer over your end of the planet would be to make it very difficult to obtain a breeding license.only the best of honest breeders should be allocated one and then you might stand a chance of keeping your pure bloodlines just that PURE.....!!!

cheers shaun

[percey39]

This is where you notice who has a true love with the animals and who just loves the money!!!

All we have is faith and trust in the people we are buying off.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by percey39

This is where you notice who has a true love with the animals and who just loves the money!!!

All we have is faith and trust in the people we are buying off.

i remember when i got into snakes thinking snake sellers make used car sales men look like honest decent people ...!!

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

I only deal with a select few breeders myself. That way I know what I am getting.

Psst. wanna buy a het? I'll sell ya a pair really cheap. Oh and in 2 years when they produce a whole litter of normals, I won't even be around anymore to complain to.

[percey39]

I am the same wayne, I dont trust anyone other than people i know well or very reputable breeders who have been around a long time.
I am also the same about showing my entire collection to everyone aswell. As there has been plenty of people lose entire collections after showing people or telling people about what they really have.
Only a selcet few freinds know exactly what i have and i hope it stays that way. I have lost faith in the australian herp community after all the dodgey dealings and thefts.