exploding mice - Page 2

MouseKilla · 10-07-03, 03:53 PM

I use hot tap water for fuzzies or smaller. Adult mice and bigger I put in a bowl, boil the kettle, pour the water in the bowl and then wait till the water has cooled enough so that it's just kind of warm but not hot. I've only had pinkies tear open on me and I think that's just because their skin is thin and breaks down easily.

mykee · 10-07-03, 10:29 PM

I turn my tap on hot, fill the container with frozen rats in it, and then change the water whenever it gets cold. I have had ZERo rats explode on me. It seems that there must be something wrong with either the quality of th rats or the way they are being defrosted and heated. I'm going out on a limb here and saying that if you're doing it right, rats should never explode.

lilyskip · 10-08-03, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mykee
I'm going out on a limb here and saying that if you're doing it right, rats should never explode.

Haha--that was my impression, too.

anders_240sx · 10-08-03, 09:43 AM

The best cause I can figure out..is that your bringing a frozen object into a warm or even hot water .... even room temp could be too drastic .... since their body is largely made up of water, when u freeze them, the water is then frozen.... when u place it in an environment with such a drastic temp difference (even 10 to 20 degrees) the moleucles expand so quickly that they break .... try this by taking an ice cube and placing it in hot water....it will more than likely instantly crack... this is expansion of molecuoles and air pockets traped inside .... however ..if you place an ice cube in cold water ...then slowly add warm water to it ...the gas and molecuoles will expand slower.... thus preventing explosion

KingFfaj · 10-08-03, 01:35 PM

also water exspands when freezing, so maybe the mice skin is being streched as they are being frozen, then sudenly the solid parts are being exspanded in the hot water?

Zoe · 10-08-03, 01:47 PM

When it comes to ice cubes, the ice expands or shrinks with temps. When you put an ice cube in hot water, the ouside of the cube is a different temperature than the inside. And since stuff contracts and expands with temperature changes, it means the inside is also a different SIZE than the outside, which causes internal stress. If the size/temp difference is enough, then the internal stress will cause the ice to crack (in the case of pliable stuff like metal, it will simply change shape to accomodate the change. but with brittle crystals, glass, ice, etc, its cracks).

With mice, their insides expand (steam, stomach fluids, etc), this happens quickly in a microwave so the inside gets heated nearly as quickly as the outside... which is why it won't happen (at such a scale) in hot water. But since the mouse is a closed structure (save the rectum, but the expansion is too fast to be accomodated by rectal discharge), the expading fluids and water have no where to go, so the mouse splits or explodes and the insides come out.

Zoe

oh,

Quote:

the moleucles expand so quickly that they break

Just want to clear things up, its not the molecules themselves that are exanding, really, it's the matter. The molecules in the matter distance themselves (or come closer together).

lilyskip · 10-08-03, 11:33 PM

thanks, all! this has been really helpful.

lilyskip · 10-10-03, 10:57 PM

hey guys---just wanted to let you know, I took all of your advice tonight, and no incidents...the mouse stayed whole the entire process. It was definitely my fault; I'm sure the water was too hot (this time, I used tap water). Thanks again!

Slannesh · 10-28-03, 06:22 PM

Never had a problem with this myself, Mice or Rats i've always just thawed them in a ziplock bag in a large bowl of hot tap water.

As to the theory as to why ice cracks in hot or warm fluid, Anders, yer way off man

Zoe pretty much hit it right on.

Rapid temperature changes in any direction cause stress on materials in a solid state of matter, some things bend some things break. Ice is one of the things that breaks. It's the rapid temperature and state change that do it not expanding air pockets. The same thing would happen to ice prepared in a vacuum

I can think of several reasons why mice explode, too much of a temp change too fast, thawing refrozen mice and possibly even thawing mice that weren't frozen soon after being euthanized.

Doch · 10-28-03, 07:05 PM

I was having that problem briefly myself. The cause (as best as I figured) was because I was running water over top of the frozen rodents (in baggies) which caused their stomachs to split open. I don't know exactly how you've been handling them, but when they get frozen their skin seems to weaken. Maybe just try to be more gentle with them. My problem stopped as soon as I stopped treating them rough.