Breeding concern!!! - Page 2

eyespy · 08-02-03, 02:40 PM

What you are describing is actually a fairly common result of overcrowding stress, it's a hormonal imbalance that causes females to act that way, but the underlying cause is usually high stress levels. Once a female is sexually mature she wants a certain amount of turf that's all her own as a potential nest site. If she doesn't have that her aggression levels will rise and she will often take on male behavior patterns. Removing the other girl means less competition for nesting sites but won't totally remove the stress as the male will still assert his dominance over her so she can't lay claim to any turf of her own.

The aggressive girls will often "feminize" once caged alone so that they can feel secure in their own territory.

TribalGecko · 08-02-03, 02:59 PM

Well I have her and the male in a 55 gallon tank. Isn't that enough room for the two? The egg layer is gone and they seemed to have settled down. The male took the highest basking point and the female is in the heated cave. I don't know what kind of setup she came from but she was much meaner and freaked out at the show and when we first brought her home. I was really hoping to have a trio together but maybe I will just keep one female apart for awhile.

eyespy · 08-02-03, 04:11 PM

Not for those two from the sounds of their behavior. There's enough stress going on to significantly shorten the female's lifespan. Most folks who sucessfully keep groups of beardies use cages the size of a room, literally. A 55 gallon isn't sufficient cage space for an adult male in my opinion, let alone a pair. I've seen plenty of male dragons suffering overcrowding stress and even nerve damage to the tail base from cages that small.

TribalGecko · 08-02-03, 09:08 PM

Wow, I have read from several sources thus far that a 55 gallon tank is sufficient. If it is too small then they will have to wait until I can build a custom cage. They seem to be doing fine right now, all tucked in for the night. Taking out one of the females seems to have settled the others right down. I wish I lived in a warm southern climate where I could have outdoor enclosures like at Agama International.

TribalGecko · 08-07-03, 02:24 PM

Update on the mean beardie! Thank you so much for your advice! I took the egg layer out for a few days. Right after that, the "meanie" female attached herself to the male and followed him all over the tank. The next day he bred with her (very immodestly I should say..haha) and she just loves him to death! She is so sweet and docile, I can't believe it is the same beardie. She love to be held and petted and will eat out of our hands. I reintroduced the original female back into the tank and they are getting along wonderfully, no fighting, no shows of dominance or anything. They all hang out together, eat and sleep together. I can't believe this is working out so well. We are in the process of building a new cage, I hope that won't mess up the harmony!

eyespy · 08-07-03, 02:47 PM

TribalGecko, right now the aggression levels are probably low because of the recent mating. Once hormone levels have cycled back up to mating urges once more the entire cycle can start up all over again. Unlike humans, the females can often wait days or weeks before the hormones cycle up again but the males are often ready to go 10 minutes later.

Most of the folks I've known who've tried group enclosures have since split them up because it's such a delicate balance to keep all the raging hormones from turning into either aggressive or depressive tendencies and causing undue stress on the group.

TribalGecko · 08-07-03, 02:57 PM

I guess I will see what happens. I really wanted to have a trio so I could watch the social interaction but not if they are all going to start PMSing all the time. I had put the egg layer in a tank I had with a uromastyx because I had no other place at the time and they really got along great together. I guess I could put her there temporarily.

eyespy · 08-07-03, 03:08 PM

No, no, no!!! Uros and beardies have very different gut flora and the egg-layer has a vent area that's lost a lot of its protective mucus from laying eggs so she's much more vulnerable to infections or parasites. Never, ever mix species, and especially when gravid females or recent layers are concerned.

That's breaking every quarantine rule in the book, anyhow. I worry just at the thought that a new beardie was added to the group without appropriate quarantine. The egg-layer is dealing with the gut flora and any potential parasites or pathogens the new mean beardie brought into the house already. Please don't compound things by throwing yet another animal into the mix.

TribalGecko · 08-07-03, 03:18 PM

Well I don't see any signs of parasites, everybody is very healthy but I will take your advice and not put her in with the Uro.