Trying to fit things in

[Heidyth]

Thank you jjhill001 I go back and forth on the sani chips. I have worked with them in the past with rodents and I definitely know how much they stick like glue to everything. I keep picturing a pinky covered in it going down my snake and cringe. I already have a heat pad. I have heard that hognose like hot spot closer to the low 90's. That is why I was thinking of going with the che and heat pad. I have decided to go with the smaller enclosure but not with everything in it. I don't know how warm a heat pad gets. Plus a silly question um does the heat pad plug into the thermostat and then you set the temp on the thermostat and the probe on the pad to make sure it stays the right temp?

[Heidyth]

I just looked at the forest floor cypress mulch bedding. It is said to be great for holding humidity. It is my understanding that hognose like low humidity so I thing I should go with the aspen bedding.

[akane]

Your thermostat goes between your power and your heat source to shut it off or in some cases work as a dimmer if it's a more expensive version and your heat source can work that way. You then need to correspond where you place the probe and what the ranges are from your heat source(s) to set the max temp for it.

I have fed everything else in the enclosure right away but with the few week old pine snakes I did find it useful to remove them to a darkened small plastic container for feeding at first. Unlike my slightly to much older previous snakes or at least being already separated to a larger display tank with substrate I took them from their little rack bin with siblings to 24x17" natural substrate and multiple rock hide living quarters. They promptly got lost, tried to climb up when they ran into these weird objects, failed to find the gaps into the hides for a few days, didn't go looking for food, etc... After a few weeks when they had hides and digging figured out they were just more annoyed with being removed so I started shoving the pinkies under the edge of the hide they had established as their favorites. They figured that out by the 2nd time until I moved them to even more complex display tanks with exposure to people. The female apparently went whatever and this log is awesome for digging under and eating off of while moving up in food size the male has gone into hiding in his deeper substrate. I keep losing track of him in it and he has not eaten despite trying mice fuzzies instead and tweaking conditions a little. Before I start pulling him out for meals again or removing some of the obstacles so he has less options I was waiting to see if he might be shedding given the female did weeks ago. Even within species they all vary and the female has eaten double what the male has from the start and would happily eat double that again if you kept handing it to her.

[Heidyth]

Thanks akane that is pretty much how I pictured in my mind that the thermostat worked. I just wanted to double check. Back when I had snakes before my now ex had them long before we met. So I never questioned anything. I know now that a lot of how they were kept was not the best and I don't want to make mistakes. Oh hindsight makes things better when given another chance.

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by Heidyth

I just looked at the forest floor cypress mulch bedding. It is said to be great for holding humidity. It is my understanding that hognose like low humidity so I thing I should go with the aspen bedding.

It'll hold humidity well, but if you don't spray it with water it won't be humid. If it gets a little wet from the snake being in the water bowl or it spills once it's no big deal. Just let it dry out and the humidity change will be negligible.

[Heidyth]

Thank you all. jjhill001 thanks for being patient about the mulch bedding humidity. When I read your reply I kind of did an "Oh duh" LOL I do like the look better than the aspen. Can it be washed and reused or just best to toss the cypress mulch? I saw and add for repti bark that said it could be washed in hot water. Is it just me or does that not sound like a good idea? I worry about it not killing the bacteria etc I want to get 3 or 4 hides so he has a good choice in different temp ranges and just more variety. I have heard that some of these guys like to climb around a bit so I will make sure he has something to do that on if he wants. I also plan to get him a T8 bulb so he gets the UVB. I have read that they don't need it but that it helps with activity and eating problems. I figure if they have access to the light in nature it can't hurt. As long as I keep it to a T8. Stronger like a T5 is said to be to much.

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by Heidyth

Thank you all. jjhill001 thanks for being patient about the mulch bedding humidity. When I read your reply I kind of did an "Oh duh" LOL I do like the look better than the aspen. Can it be washed and reused or just best to toss the cypress mulch? I saw and add for repti bark that said it could be washed in hot water. Is it just me or does that not sound like a good idea? I worry about it not killing the bacteria etc I want to get 3 or 4 hides so he has a good choice in different temp ranges and just more variety. I have heard that some of these guys like to climb around a bit so I will make sure he has something to do that on if he wants. I also plan to get him a T8 bulb so he gets the UVB. I have read that they don't need it but that it helps with activity and eating problems. I figure if they have access to the light in nature it can't hurt. As long as I keep it to a T8. Stronger like a T5 is said to be to much.

Honestly there is a huge bacteria fear that really is overblown. If you're removing poops regularly and replacing the surrounding bedding you can go months without changing it with no problems.

The bacteria that can actually make your snake sick are already on it's skin and inside of it's body. The second you put a snake back into an enclosure you just sterilized with bleach or whatever overpriced reptile stuff someone tells you to buy, the bacteria goes from the snake back to all over the cage. Cleanliness is important in my opinion, however this obsession with sterility you see should be reserved for quarantine situations.

[Andy_G]

Sani chips may stick to things but there are very easy ways around that and they are infinitely easier for a young hognose to pass than some of the other larger more jagged substrates out there if ingested. They also like it just fine for burrowing. I can understand why it wouldn't be everyone's first choice, though. Getting some good ideas and advice here Heidyth.

[Heidyth]

I have a couple questions 1) If the snake does not have mites when you get them and they are the only animal other than a fish aquarium in the house can they get mites still? I don't plan on holding other animals even at a herp show. 2) I have read that a few like to swim even when healthy. So would the larger water bowl with the rock so it can get out, be ok? I would also have a rock leading up to the bowl so he can get in easier.

[akane]

It does seem obsessive to need to be able to 100% sterilize everything compared to practically every other animal we keep with reused slightly to completely absorbent items that are scrubbed with mild, nontoxic cleaners at best. I've got mammal and bird wood houses, perches, shelves, and toys or mildly absorbent brick and rock reused for years if they aren't chewed up with mostly hot water scrubs and only vinegar for antibacterial. It's overall nontoxic to most of the actual animals I keep and the acid simply gases off if you are careful of items that can absorb too deeply for enough air exposure. I use stronger cleaners on bird grates and cage pans or lower ph acid than vinegar like oxalic acid based sprays on glass mostly to get things off completely without the effort or damage to the surfaces hand scrubbing with rougher materials rather than to kill bacteria completely. Carnivorous animals of all types have more types of bacteria present in their digestive tracts than most herbivores we keep but they end up being more resistant to it when we aren't talking about situations like wounds that can be infected. Provided the levels are kept low it's pretty normal and impossible to avoid exposure in the environment. It's also been shown repeatedly in humans and various animals to prevent health issues and improve resistance to more infections not to be kept completely sterile most of the time.

I worry more about mold with natural materials it can feed on. While most is not truly toxic few animals are as durable to fungi as common bacteria. It's easier to kill but if you give it something to grow on it's more persistent without needing more waste added to have more fuel. Without a bioactive cleanup crew I'd have to be a lot more picky about what I use if it's going to get at all damp. I've had far more mold problems around the house than I've had bacterial infections in any species that the immune system couldn't destroy without further treatment when some initial fungal or pest that allowed it to survive in irritated tissue was eliminated.

[Heidyth]

Thanks akane. Do you use diluted vinegar? I use 50/50 water and vinegar around the house.

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by akane

It does seem obsessive to need to be able to 100% sterilize everything compared to practically every other animal we keep with reused slightly to completely absorbent items that are scrubbed with mild, nontoxic cleaners at best. I've got mammal and bird wood houses, perches, shelves, and toys or mildly absorbent brick and rock reused for years if they aren't chewed up with mostly hot water scrubs and only vinegar for antibacterial. It's overall nontoxic to most of the actual animals I keep and the acid simply gases off if you are careful of items that can absorb too deeply for enough air exposure. I use stronger cleaners on bird grates and cage pans or lower ph acid than vinegar like oxalic acid based sprays on glass mostly to get things off completely without the effort or damage to the surfaces hand scrubbing with rougher materials rather than to kill bacteria completely. Carnivorous animals of all types have more types of bacteria present in their digestive tracts than most herbivores we keep but they end up being more resistant to it when we aren't talking about situations like wounds that can be infected. Provided the levels are kept low it's pretty normal and impossible to avoid exposure in the environment. It's also been shown repeatedly in humans and various animals to prevent health issues and improve resistance to more infections not to be kept completely sterile most of the time.

I worry more about mold with natural materials it can feed on. While most is not truly toxic few animals are as durable to fungi as common bacteria. It's easier to kill but if you give it something to grow on it's more persistent without needing more waste added to have more fuel. Without a bioactive cleanup crew I'd have to be a lot more picky about what I use if it's going to get at all damp. I've had far more mold problems around the house than I've had bacterial infections in any species that the immune system couldn't destroy without further treatment when some initial fungal or pest that allowed it to survive in irritated tissue was eliminated.

I just use hot water in my enclosures that aren't bioactive.

[Aaron_S]

I found hognoses suck at swimming moreso than other species of snakes. I'd keep the water dish as is.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by Heidyth

I have a couple questions 1) If the snake does not have mites when you get them and they are the only animal other than a fish aquarium in the house can they get mites still? I don't plan on holding other animals even at a herp show. 2) I have read that a few like to swim even when healthy. So would the larger water bowl with the rock so it can get out, be ok? I would also have a rock leading up to the bowl so he can get in easier.

Mites that are a plague for us keepers are tropical snake mites. They are only found in the wild areas without a cold winter or found in captivity on infected snakes as well as possibly bedding that has been kept near the infected captive. They have to originate from one of these sources for the snake to have them. In regards to the water question, out of the 20ish or so adults I have had as well as the couple thousand babies I have hatched, I have never had one that enjoys being in the water without one of the reasons I have provided earlier in this thread.

[Heidyth]

Thanks I will keep the small water dish.