When can I start feeding rats

[dannybgoode]

Boas have very slow metabolisms big also very rarely refuse a meal even if they're not particularly hungry or in need of food. This greed is often mistaken for hunger and consequently boas tend to be overfed. They are ludicrously easy to overfeed as a consequence.

Trouble is they store fat initially around their organs so it's hard to tell they're in potentially poor health. Once they're visibly fat then they're really overweight and it's a lot of work to get them back into shape.

I feed my 16mo CA imperator every 16 days currently-1 large mouse. She's growing great. Slowly but that's the Boa way but she's got that lovely squared off look to her top and sides that a healthy boa should have.

Of course each snake is an individual and yours might prefer a smaller meal more often but certainly an adult boa 4 weeks between feed is the minimum really-maybe three weeks in specific circumstances.

[Serpent guru]

I understand the whole opertunistic hunter deal and all but I don't understand why u slow down as they get older.what because there starting to slow down on growing or?I've fed mine 7-14days all his life and never noticed him being obese.maybe a couple times I missed the 14 day mark by a couple of days with being extremely busy and vacation.i got up to date pictures of him.a close way to see his girth is the"albino boa" post,but he is thicker in person.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Serpent guru

I'm curious why u only feed 4-6weeks per rat?when over a 3+ year old boa?I feed mine every 7-14days and he is 5-6years old.im not saying ur wrong the way u bring up ur animals just curious

Because anything more than that is drastically overfeeding. According to Stephen Secor's research, it can take a snake a minimum of 7-18 days to digest a meal, and snakes require additional time in between meals to allow their bodies to return to a resting ("fasting" as he words it) state. An adult boa constrictor does not metabolically need to be eating every 14 days, and it puts great strain on their systems to be doing so.

His research was on pythons, but boas have proved to have far slower metabolisms and a lower threshold for fat metabolizing, so it's even more pertinent here.

I can tell you as an owner who has been feeding their 6.5' boa a large rat every 4-5 weeks and fasting him for 90 days a winter for a good 2.5 years, it is not underfeeding. I also have had many experienced keepers/breeders give me that same advise, which is why I began feeding him in this way in the first place.

Once a boa turns 2 years, its metabolism harshly drops, and continues to drop marginally over the next several years.

[Serpent guru]

Well I honestly have never seen any signs of obesity the past 5-6years with feeding the way.i honestly feel like he's just right and I've had people who owned boa's and ball pythons for 10 and 18years seen him in person and said he's good the way he is.it isn't like he's a breeder male etheir because ik feeding them 2-3weeks does something to there testosterone.

[Serpent guru]

Doctors who think being scrawny say the same thing about not eating at night and eating smaller meals but more.but I eat the way I want and I got friends who do the same.me and them aren't over weight

[bigsnakegirl785]

You're also a mammal, and snakes are reptiles, you cannot compare the two.

You cannot look at a snake and tell it's overweight until it's obese, as danny said, the majority of their fat is stored around their organs, and also in structures called fatty deposits, which are inside a body cavity. It takes a lot of mass for fat to push muscle, bone, and other tissues out enough for you to be able to tell the snake is overweight. (This is why I usually look to the state of the snake's tail after a bowel movement to determine possible body tone.)

Feeding doesn't do anything to their testosterone, cycling their temps and humidity for breeding does. As well as barometric pressure and seasonal lighting, possibly.

Constrictors do not digest in a way any other vertebrate we've discovered yet digests their food.

The snake eats the prey, their body begins ramping up the strength of their stomach acids.

Within a few hours, the snake literally begins making layers and layers of new intestinal tissue, expanding the density by 2-3x its original mass.

Over the course of the next week or two, depending on size of meal and temperatures provided, the meal is digested and moved along the body.

As the food exits the body, the tissues have already begun to literally die and wither away. This process continues for long after the snake has defecated.

It is best to allow them to digest their meal, and let their organs return to a normal state. This isn't happening if you're feeding your boa every 2 weeks, and you are drastically shortening his lifespan, even if he isn't overweight.

[dannybgoode]

And this is why I never feed during the shed cycle as it gives a natural break to feeding and allows the snake's body to reset.

Note I'm not saying feeding during shed is wrong or bad but I see it as an opportunity to rest the digestive system.

Also remember just because x number of people do or say something does not mean it is right. Husbandry moves on and it is up to us as keepers to be aware of the latest research and methods to give our reptiles the best possible care.

For example a few years ago the concept of bioactive vivs would have been dismissed out of hand and there are still those with go with the whole misconception about loose substrates being bad for lizards and who insist bioactive keepers are harming their lizards. Utter rubbish of course but they refuse to research study and learn.

Overfeeding is the same. Yes a few years ago most people would think 4-6 weeks for a boa was way too long between feeds, harmful even but new research etc has proved the opposite. You can choose to learn and even study the research first hand to make a fully informed decision or you can choose to dismiss it completely and stick with the old ways just because that's what you've always done.

[Serpent guru]

Well I'm sure 5-6 years would definitely show signs of him be obese because let's face it that's alot of of mouse's and rats.ill shoot a video of him if u would like to see his structure of his body I got proof so that's what I'm sticking to.so now it's going from obese to shortening the life span even if he isn't obese it just doesn't make any sense to me.i totally understand obesity kills reptiles I get it but I would have noticed it by now I may only have had one snake but i ant new to the reptile world.and it isn't like he's regurtating to where his insides are ripped up because of the lack of tissue.because ik that's a big factor when u have a snake that can't hold food down.look at my pictures theres no sign of obesity so it speaks for itself.

[bored]

Bad camera and a dirty bed I know, but here it is.

https://postimg.org/image/ma9ohfwtn/

https://postimg.org/image/4hkndu5lx/

[Serpent guru]

Ur boa still looks amazing I couldn't imagine how he looks in person sense u don't have the greatest camera !

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Serpent guru

Well I'm sure 5-6 years would definitely show signs of him be obese because let's face it that's alot of of mouse's and rats.ill shoot a video of him if u would like to see his structure of his body I got proof so that's what I'm sticking to.so now it's going from obese to shortening the life span even if he isn't obese it just doesn't make any sense to me.i totally understand obesity kills reptiles I get it but I would have noticed it by now I may only have had one snake but i ant new to the reptile world.and it isn't like he's regurtating to where his insides are ripped up because of the lack of tissue.because ik that's a big factor when u have a snake that can't hold food down.look at my pictures theres no sign of obesity so it speaks for itself.

Idk how many times I can say this but: you cannot always tell visually if a snake is overweight. You would have to get an x-ray of his fat deposits if he looks fit on the outside.

Whether or not he's obese, you're still forcing him to continually build tissue without ever giving his body a break and return to a normal, fasting state. Building so much tissue is very taxing and requires a lot of energy. This is how it's causing strain to his body, and how it's taking years off his life. He doesn't even have to regurge for it to be doing damage. If he starts regurging, it's too late to prevent any damage, or lessen it.

Originally Posted by bored

Bad camera and a dirty bed I know, but here it is.

https://postimg.org/image/ma9ohfwtn/

https://postimg.org/image/4hkndu5lx/

Nice boa! Definitely looks a tad heavy in the back, I'd cut down on feeding multiple mice, but he should be fine so long as you take the advice given in this thread.

[Serpent guru]

Well I already called a couple of big time breeders and they feed there boa's about every two weeks on rats now rabbits are 3-4weeks.ig they are more filling or something.i would of noticed it by now5-6years is a long time it's a quarter of his life that's like us saying 20years is nothing us to humans.

[Serpent guru]

Which I am about to start feeding rabbits what's equivalent to around a 360 gram rat some are less I get.he did say with rats it won't hurt to wait a couple days over to weeks here and there.i honestly been feeding him around every 11-12 days but imma just go strictly to every 14 maybe 15-16 if I'm really busy with rats.but i would really like to get rabbits sense there higher protein

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Serpent guru

Well I already called a couple of big time breeders and they feed there boa's about every two weeks on rats now rabbits are 3-4weeks.ig they are more filling or something.i would of noticed it by now5-6years is a long time it's a quarter of his life that's like us saying 20years is nothing us to humans.so imma just stay doing the way I have sense his whole life there never was any signs.

Ok well you don't have to listen to me, if you think 6 years is a long time for a boa to live then be my guest. Many overfed snakes barely even make it into their teens, if they live even that long, and if 1/3-1/2 of its average potential lifespan is ok to you then it's your snakes. Just don't be suggesting for new owners to do the same as you, as some may want their's to live 20-30+ years. Heard of quite a few snakes living into their 40's or 50's but hey. 6-10 years is pretty good. Sure, many other things like accidents or illness could take them away but at least overfeeding is preventable.

[Serpent guru]

I'm done arguing there's honestly no point because hes healthy in every way and there's never been a sign of obesity and it definitely would of shown by now.