Adult ball python suddenly aggressive out of the blue - Page 2

SnoopySnake · 10-22-15, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You can use a hook to "hook train" the snake. Gently tap the snake on the head or rub the body and it usually breaks the feeding zone they go into.

To add to this, never use the hook when feeding. You want them to associate the hook with no food.

**Aaron_S** · 10-22-15, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgia

The other posters are right. What she was fed in the past doesn't mean a damn thing at this point. Snakes change just like people do. If she doesn't want mice, don't feed mice. Feed er 1 giant rat every feeding. She's not a baby anymore so don't feed her like she's a baby. Btw, mice are not near as nutritious as a rat. So REGARDLESS of how many mice you feed her it wont matter.

That's like comparing Ramen Noodles to a Turkey. Ramen may fill you up, but you'll be hungry shortly afterwards. Eat a Turkey and you'll be well fed and content for a long time.

Look at it this way. Mice have low bone density, low fat content and low muscle mass. A jumbo rat is the exact opposite.

It boils down to common sense. I'm not trying to be a hard *** but the answer to your question is so obvious that someone has to be blunt with you and tell it like it is.

To apply your analogy, feeding a jumbo rat is akin to feeding a single human a party size pizza on their own. Sure you can do it but it isn't healthy. You would wind up with an obese snake.

If you're going to feed rats a medium will do just fine for life.

On the mice vs. rat debate, you're comparing a rat to a single mouse. Not multiple mice.
For example, if a single rat has a 50% fat content (for arguments sake I'm using easy numbers) and a single mouse has a fat content of 5% then I could argue that 10 mice would equal the same fat content. Therefore feeding multiple prey items would also be okay.

It boils down to common sense with math. I'm not trying to be a hard *** but your statement is so obviously flawed that someone has to be blunt and tell it like it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopySnake

To add to this, never use the hook when feeding. You want them to associate the hook with no food.

Good point.

ManSlaughter33 · 10-22-15, 10:26 AM

I don't even feed my 5-6 foot boa Jumbos yet. Shes just starting on large.

a nice medium rat once a week for a while.
Hook training is great. use the hook to gently tap or rub the snake to make sure its awake and aware, then pick it up, you can use the hook to direct its head away from where you are grabbing if you're nervous about being bit. Using this when you want to handle vs not using it when you want to feed, will help the snake know when it's time to eat and when it's time to chill out.

Good Luck

lupegirl8 · 10-23-15, 09:55 AM

We have been doing "hook training" since we got her. Before taking her out we always rub/gently prod her with a broken hanger (our impromptu snake hook). The first time she bit me I accidentally grabbed the feeding tongs instead of the hanger to try to prod her head away (in hindsight a very stupid choice; definitely my fault I got tagged). The second time I'm pretty sure I touched her with the hanger before taking her out, but it was also only a day or two before her feeding day so she was probably extra hungry.

Yesterday I used my snake tongs and hook to get her out of the tank and she acted totally normally. No aggression or apparent "hungriness" when I lifted up the hide and prodded her with the tongs. Just the sweet, gentle snake she's always been. Maybe it was as simple as me not using the hook training method and/or handling her too close to a feeding day.

As a biologist I'm also having a little trouble with the idea that there is as much difference between a mouse and a rat as between a "turkey dinner and ramen noodles". They are made up of the same things, just in slightly different proportions. Feeding a medium rat should be very similar to feeding several mice of equivalent weight. If mice are THAT nutritionally lacking then shouldn't we be feeding ALL snakes (even small ones) cut up rat pieces instead of whole mice?

My girlfriend and I are planning on trying a medium rat next time we feed her to see if it makes a difference. If not we may go back to feeding an equivalent number of mice (we will calculate it by weight this time). Probably depends on which ends up being more cost effective.

SnoopySnake · 10-23-15, 10:06 AM

One appropriately sized rat will likely be way cheaper, and I imagine also less stressful for your snake. I've also noticed that my snakes are hungry sooner with multiple small prey. One appropriate sized meal seems to satisfy them longer.

ManSlaughter33 · 10-23-15, 10:26 AM

It honestly feels like you're asking advice but refusing to take it even from experienced snake keepers. And you seem to be questioning your snakes behaviour when it's your mistakes provoking it, so you can only really blame yourself for those.. You're not properly hook training if you keep bringing out the feeding tongs when it's not feeding time. Here's a fork but there isnt actually any food.

SnoopySnake · 10-23-15, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManSlaughter33

It honestly feels like you're asking advice but refusing to take it even from experienced snake keepers. And you seem to be questioning your snakes behaviour when it's your mistakes provoking it, so you can only really blame yourself for those.. You're not properly hook training if you keep bringing out the feeding tongs when it's not feeding time. Here's a fork but there isnt actually any food.

^^Pretty much this.

ManSlaughter33 · 10-23-15, 10:51 AM

Not trying to be rude or anything, but this is how it looks.
That's my honest opinion.

lupegirl8 · 10-23-15, 11:49 AM

Manslaughter,

Did you even read my post?! I SAID that I knew it was stupid to use the feeding tongs instead of the "hook" (I just grabbed them because they were the closest thing, but realized afterwards that it was a dumb thing to do). That was the ONLY time it happened. When I said that I got her out with my "snake tongs" and prodded her with my "tongs" yesterday I was talking about my SNAKE TONGS (those things you use for handling venomous snakes) not FEEDING TONGS.

I also SAID that it was ABSOLUTELY my fault that I got bit both times. Did you make no mistakes when you were learning how to keep snakes?

And I JUST said that I was going to try feeding a rat next time! So I AM taking your advice!

It honestly seems like you are just skimming my post without actually reading it.

ManSlaughter33 · 10-23-15, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lupegirl8

Manslaughter,

Did you even read my post?! I SAID that I knew it was stupid to use the feeding tongs instead of the "hook" (I just grabbed them because they were the closest thing, but realized afterwards that it was a dumb thing to do). That was the ONLY time it happened. When I said that I got her out with my "snake tongs" and prodded her with my "tongs" yesterday I was talking about my SNAKE TONGS (those things you use for handling venomous snakes) not FEEDING TONGS.

I also SAID that it was ABSOLUTELY my fault that I got bit both times. Did you make no mistakes when you were learning how to keep snakes?

And I JUST said that I was going to try feeding a rat next time! So I AM taking your advice!

It honestly seems like you are just skimming my post without actually reading it.

i DID read it AND you just WORDED it very WEIRD. I see tongs I think FEEDING tongs. I'm just telling you what I SEE in your POSTS and I already said Im NOT trying to be RUDE.

I've given my advice and with tha tgood luck with your snakes.

Georgia · 10-24-15, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

To apply your analogy, feeding a jumbo rat is akin to feeding a single human a party size pizza on their own. Sure you can do it but it isn't healthy. You would wind up with an obese snake.

If you're going to feed rats a medium will do just fine for life.

On the mice vs. rat debate, you're comparing a rat to a single mouse. Not multiple mice.
For example, if a single rat has a 50% fat content (for arguments sake I'm using easy numbers) and a single mouse has a fat content of 5% then I could argue that 10 mice would equal the same fat content. Therefore feeding multiple prey items would also be okay.

It boils down to common sense with math. I'm not trying to be a hard *** but your statement is so obviously flawed that someone has to be blunt and tell it like it is.

Good point.

I respect your opinion but have to disagree to an extent. It would also depend on size of snake and size of prey item. Not to mention the unrealistic analogy of a full grown BP eating10 mice to achieve the same nutrients as a jumbo rat.

**Aaron_S** · 10-24-15, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgia

I respect your opinion but have to disagree to an extent. It would also depend on size of snake and size of prey item. Not to mention the unrealistic analogy of a full grown BP eating10 mice to achieve the same nutrients as a jumbo rat.

Unrealistic? I guess the whole percentage of nutrients/per prey item was lost on you. Since this was entirely disregarded I'm going to assume you didnt understand it.

When you want to argue actual numbers and facts instead of simply using sizes with your eyes as your argument.

Based on how obese your canebrake is I'm going to assume you don't think overfeeding is an actual thing in reptiles. Since you also ignored the analogy of eating an entire party pizza even though we can we shouldn't. Ball pythons don't need jumbo rats to stay healthy. Very few exceptions to this rule.

Georgia · 11-02-15, 12:29 AM

Obese? My canebrake is anything but obese. Obviously since you are from Canada you don't have Canes or much experience in them otherwise you'd know they are heavy bodied snakes by nature.

**Aaron_S** · 11-02-15, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgia

Obese? My canebrake is anything but obese. Obviously since you are from Canada you don't have Canes or much experience in them otherwise you'd know they are heavy bodied snakes by nature.

Being Canadian means nothing. However, it's been mentioned more than once now, that any insults or comments regarding someone's Country of origin will NOT be tolerated. We've seen many "flame wars" result from such things.

"heavy bodied" does not mean you're supposed to see the skin between the scales. Blood pythons are heavy bodied and I don't see exposed skin. Burms and retics are heavy bodied and I don't see skin between the scales. I don't need to be from Malaysia to know this.