New Red Carpet Baby

[pinefamily]

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

How do they compare in that respect to woma pythons?

Depends who you talk to, lol. Seriously though, personally we have never owned a woma, but talking to a guy we know who breeds both, he told and showed us how placid the BHP's he had were. I did ask the same question at the time, and he said their temperament and intelligence were chalk and cheese.
Additionally, woma's are known to have a massive food response (except for Patrick's ).
If you want to see some really nice BHP's here in Oz, search for Prestige Pythons website, or Sonneman's Snakes on Facebook.

[Albert Clark]

Doesn't Derek R. breed the bhp ? He is on Ssnakess right here?? Maybe Millertime knows for sure?

[Sylphie]

Yeah, Derek R is on ssnakess and is breeding them

And that carpet is really sweet!

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

A quick google search turned up $750 for '13 males only from one retailer, $2250 for a 6' female (shipped), $2000 for a 3' male (+ shipping) and $5000 for an 8' pair (shipped) on Kingsnake classifieds.

Hey there guys, Yes...in the states you can find BHPs anywhere from 800 to 2500 each. The reason for the variance of price is the same as any other species. The nicer stuff, lines of animals that have been refined, good strong lines that reproduce with no issues....are going to cost more.

It's like anything else, you get what you pay for.
Sure, if you only want a BHP just for the sake of having one...buy cheap, if you don't mind possibly losing the animals because inexperienced keepers don't know who to get them going correctly or they die at 5 years old because they were over fed on large rodents. (NEVER buy adult BHPs...they almost never reproduce for the keepers who bought them)

If you want to breed them and want the offspring to sell....you have to buy solid animals that your customers will want in the future and, that will cost you a little more. This goes for any species.

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

they haven't been exported from OZ very long, and there aren't many breeders on this side of the pond yet.

There is only one line of BHPs that were brought into the US legally in the mid 60s. There were a few single animals brought in by zoos throughout the 80s/90s but, All others were illegally brought in over the years.
That said, because of their price at the time (15,000 a pair) they were brought in greater numbers than most other Aussie species and because of that we have a fairly big genetic pool of them here....more so than other Aussie species.

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

It will be quite a few years before they'll be $250, demand is much higher than supply.

It will also be years because they do not breed consistently on our commercial rodent diet supply
(Something that the Aussie Breeders are just starting to find out, now that the private and public are legally allowed to keep reptiles in captivity and have a commercial industry growing very strongly. First thing that commercialization does is change the food supply because of the rapid rate it needs to be turned)

We've had a 50 year head start with private herpiculture here in the US and our commercial bred rodents are the same for the BHPs as eating only McDonalds everyday for us humans.
These farmed rodents on the whole here in the US are horrible for most species (as some species handle it better than others) But hey, it's what's available right? Nothing you can do about it other than find alternatives for your animals....which I do for my BHPs.

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

The $5k pair would actually be a good investment for someone with enough experience to breed them successfully, but that's not me.

Actually, that pair on kingsnake would be the same as throwing your money in the toilet....even for experienced keepers....(I've learned the hard way on this.)
Best to buy babies from someone with experience who can tell you how to raise and feed them. Then....and, most likely only then, would you be successful with em.

Oh yeah, sorry to hijack your Carpet post. Looking at it, it defiantly has some IJ blood in it and has a high %age. Most likely a Jag Sib of some sort.

Cheers,
D

[pinefamily]

That's why we mostly breed our own rats, Derek. We know how they have been kept, and what they have been fed.

[toddnbecka]

No need to apologize for contributing good info regardless of the thread title, lol.
Incidentally, there were several other wee carpets at the same seller's table I got this one from that were labelled Jag sibs, but completely different colors and patterns than this red one. Should start taking my camera to the shows...

[pinefamily]

While I can admire their patterning (such as yours), I have to say I'm a purist, and not a fan of jags and such. A very divided topic here in Oz by the way.

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

No need to apologize for contributing good info regardless of the thread title, lol.

Word. Haha.

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

Incidentally, there were several other wee carpets at the same seller's table I got this one from that were labelled Jag sibs, but completely different colors and patterns than this red one. Should start taking my camera to the shows...

Different colors and patterns are to be expected with any carpet python really. Just because some of the others "looked different" doesn't mean that yours wasn't or isn't....it just means it looks different. Looking at your though, defiantly IJ in it. I've produced 100's of IJs (and coastals) over the years and IJ blood is really easy to spot.
Not too many people will breed pure subspecies to pure subspecies unless it was a morph involved....IE Jags....which is common place in the hobby as you know.


IJ Babies


At 6 months


Cheers,
D

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by pinefamily

That's why we mostly breed our own rats, Derek. We know how they have been kept, and what they have been fed.

You're right....that was the Aussies only choice up until about 10 years ago. That's why I said keepers are just now starting to see the effects of feeding rodents to their BHPs over there. But, in general, BHPs will live a shorter life span on rodents and have more reproductive problems than they will on their natural diet....farmed rodents just speed it up several years.

Cheers,
D

[Albert Clark]

Originally Posted by Derek Roddy

You're right....that was the Aussies only choice up until about 10 years ago. That's why I said keepers are just now starting to see the effects of feeding rodents to their BHPs over there. But, in general, BHPs will live a shorter life span on rodents and have more reproductive problems than they will on their natural diet....farmed rodents just speed it up several years.

Cheers,
D

Derek, so what is the natural diet of BHPs w/o having to google it myself? Also, are your prices more friendly than the 1250 that TNB encountered at the Hamburgh show?

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Derek, so what is the natural diet of BHPs w/o having to google it myself? Also, are your prices more friendly than the 1250 that TNB encountered at the Hamburgh show?

Natural diet is other reptiles, with Womas and Fierce snakes (Tipans) being a favorite. haha. Frilled Lizards, bearded Dragons, skinks, etc.....all on the menu.

My prices for pairs start at 3050/3250 and go up from there. But, I'm all sold out this year already. I usually don't offer singles unless I have high ratios on either sex.



Cheers,
D

[Albert Clark]

Oh, ok. Then 1250 was a fair price but for a inferior animal. Also, that price was for a single animal and not as healthy as yours. Bloodline and the like. Is fowl a option to keep BHPs healthy or do you recommend a reptile based diet? Thanks. Those are some beauties you have there, sir.

[pinefamily]

Over here the consensus has been to not overfeed a BHP with too large a prey size. And yes, quail and baby chickens are ok too. As would be baby rabbits, which we have yet to try. Personally I baulk at feeding other reptiles to our BHP. We did have to rub skink poop on a rat to get a fussy python eating once.

[toddnbecka]

The "jag sibs" at the table were mainly black and brown banded, completely different than the one I picked up. Also $40 less on the price, which also made me inclined to think they were from a different line.
The jungle/cross I picked up there from the same seller last year has a bit of pink blush on the sides. Is pink an indicator of anything in particular? (Naturally, it doesn't show in the pics...)
Indoors with a flash, washed out a bit:

[Derek Roddy]

That's a nice jungle cross. Very pretty and clean.

You have to remember that just because your animal looks different to the other ones you saw labled "Jag Sib"...doesn't mean that yours would not be one. Price, etc......all that is moot because your animal most likely came from a different source than the others.
Couple that with the fact that some Jag breeders simply label the sibs as the crosses they are and leave the (jag) description out of it.

Your animal is defiantly an IJ cross of some sort (regardless of what it was labeled as wholesalers sometimes "guess" when they don't get lineage)

Being that it is a cross....Logic tells us (at this point in the carpet python keeping hobby) that it most likely came from a jag breeding. Of course we can't know for sure but, I know most of the breeders that wholesale Carpets and the crosses they produce all come from Jag or some other morph breeding.

In the carpet world, breeding subspecies together to make crosses is highly frowned upon. It's a quick way to kill your reputation with the other breeders so, most keepers avoid doing it outside of the morphs and usually where the crosses in the "pet stores and vendor tables" come from....morph breedings.

That's not a bad thing at all unless they aren't represented properly or no lineage info is given and, we end up with threads like these. That's why (if you want something other than a cool pet) it's better to buy from breeders who can tell you this stuff without guessing. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter. Haha.

They're both smokin animals.

Cheers,
D