Is this man being responsible with these hot snakes? - Page 2

that1guy · 05-28-15, 10:04 AM

Personally I'm not interested in hots, I only like constrictors. However I stumbled across this guy about a year ago and have watched several of his videos since then. I find his videos to be entertaining, but I do think he takes some unnecessary risk. However his videos say just because he does it doesn't mean you should. I agree with him, it's no one else's business what he does with his snakes. It's his life to risk and if he dies doing it, if he's ok with it then it doesn't bother me. Some people may see him and judge the hobby by his actions, but that is just stupid. No matter who it is or what they do it is wrong to judge a whole group of people by the actions of one person. Most people now realize it is wrong to judge a whole race or nation by the actions of the worse person from said group. So why would you do it with people in the same hobby? Not that I am saying he is the worse snake keeper there is just trying to make a point.

Pirarucu · 05-28-15, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by that1guy

Some people may see him and judge the hobby by his actions, but that is just stupid. No matter who it is or what they do it is wrong to judge a whole group of people by the actions of one person. Most people now realize it is wrong to judge a whole race or nation by the actions of the worse person from said group. So why would you do it with people in the same hobby? Not that I am saying he is the worse snake keeper there is just trying to make a point.

Except they do. It happens all the time. When lobbyist groups push to ban exotic species, hots are a very easy first target, just like large constrictors. All those lobbyists need to do is show politicians those videos and tell them that those practices are normal. Since he's the only hot keeper consistently posting videos, those practices do look normal to an outsider. They will pull up the worst examples and present them as typical of the hobby. It doesn't matter if it's wrong or unfair, it happens. Period. There is no excuse for giving ammo to the people trying to ban our animals. None. If he wants to take risks, on his head be it. But the moment he posts those videos online while bragging about how experienced he is, it reflects badly on the hobby as a whole, and it is no longer only his business.

Albert Clark · 05-28-15, 11:36 AM

I didn't watch the video nor do I care to watch the video. From what I can take on it listening to the accounts posters have given it why would anyone? Prime example of buffoonery at its worst and not amusing in the least. What type of example is he setting for the young and upcoming herp hobbyists? I assure you it's a bad one! Exactly Piracu, once he leaves the privacy of his home and puts this ridiculousness on a public viewing stage then he crosses the line. It makes all herp keepers look like imbeciles. Every action has a impact on us a nation. Lost reptiles, reptile bites, inappropriate reptile shipping practices so why do we need a video of a keeper mishandling venomous reptiles for? Attention? Really, what is he teaching? Irresponsibility? Quackery? This is what USARK is fighting for? Please, be for real!

Albert Clark · 05-28-15, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

so...based on observation of a couple of YouTube videos, he has been written off as a fool. his wife typically is the one taking the video...that's a "buddy system". Snake hooks/tongs? they're present, you may not see them (he uses hooks frequently). And then we have the admonition to keep (and by inference, use) a machete on the snakes if one gets wonky.

Viperkeeper videos plainly state that "just because i do it this way, you don't need to try this"...he may be showy, but he is def one of the more responsible hot keepers/handlers (with years and years of experience) I have seen. It's not my cup of tea, I have no desire to own hots...but I have respect for this guy.

eminart is on to something folks...contact the dude if you have issues. leave a comment on one of his videos...you don't dig what he's doing? great, glean what is applicable to you and move along. no need to bash the guy on forums, especially when he's not present to refute your accusations.

REALLY???? Be for real!

FWK · 05-28-15, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I didn't watch the video nor do I care to watch the video. From what I can take on it listening to the accounts posters have given it why would anyone? Prime example of buffoonery at its worst and not amusing in the least. What type of example is he setting for the young and upcoming herp hobbyists? I assure you it's a bad one! Exactly Piracu, once he leaves the privacy of his home and puts this ridiculousness on a public viewing stage then he crosses the line. It makes all herp keepers look like imbeciles. Every action has a impact on us a nation. Lost reptiles, reptile bites, inappropriate reptile shipping practices so why do we need a video of a keeper mishandling venomous reptiles for? Attention? Really, what is he teaching? Irresponsibility? Quackery? This is what USARK is fighting for? Please, be for real!

If you have not considered the evidence you have no basis for your opinion. Is a juror to render a verdict based only on what he reads in the newspaper? I'm sure you mean well but your enthusiasm to follow the herd offers no value to this conversation. And those who base an opinion on but one piece of evidence add little more.

bigsnakegirl785 · 05-28-15, 11:53 AM

Honestly, I don't like him as a person and I don't like him as a keeper. Saying "I do this, but that doesn't mean you should" isn't enough, kids will still see that and they will only see viperkeeper freehandling his snakes. That will put them in a very dangerous situation. I do not think we need this person as a face for our hobby.

Jim Smith · 05-28-15, 11:54 AM

I understand that this man is a very knowledgeable and experienced herper. That said, why would such a knowledgeable and experienced herper think that it is necessary (or appropriate ) to open the cages of three highly venomous snakes at the same time and then distract himself with video taping himself as he feeds his snakes while trying to fend off his King Cobras? The only reason I can think of is that he wants to show how comfortable/cavalier he is around venomous snakes. I admit that I have a biased perspective of this behavior since I make my living doing risk assessments to help companies understand the risks in their operations. Based on any risk assessment process that I am aware of, his behavior is off the charts risky to the point of reckless. I always ask my clients, "Do the risks outweigh the benefits?" In viewing this video, I would have to say absolutely yes. Call me judgmental, but I think he's taking foolish risks that one day will catch up with him. Just one man's opinion...

Pirarucu · 05-28-15, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

I understand that this man is a very knowledgeable and experienced herper. That said, why would such a knowledgeable and experienced herper think that it is necessary (or appropriate ) to open the cages of three highly venomous snakes at the same time and then distract himself with video taping himself as he feeds his snakes while trying to fend off his King Cobras? The only reason I can think of is that he wants to show how comfortable/cavalier he is around venomous snakes. I admit that I have a biased perspective of this behavior since I make my living doing risk assessments to help companies understand the risks in their operations. Based on any risk assessment process that I am aware of, his behavior is off the charts risky to the point of reckless. I always ask my clients, "Do the risks outweigh the benefits?" In viewing this video, I would have to say absolutely yes. Call me judgmental, but I think he's taking foolish risks that one day will catch up with him. Just one man's opinion...

Make that two.

Albert Clark · 05-28-15, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

If you have not considered the evidence you have no basis for your opinion. Is a juror to render a verdict based only on what he reads in the newspaper? I'm sure you mean well but your enthusiasm to follow the herd offers no value to this conversation. And those who base an opinion on but one piece of evidence add little more.

This is not a courtroom, I am not on jury duty, and you certainly are not the judge! I can listen to opinions about a topic and make a informed comment on it based on my feelings of the topic. This is a public forum and it doesn't have kings and queens no matter how much you may think it does!

Albert Clark · 05-28-15, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

If you have not considered the evidence you have no basis for your opinion. Is a juror to render a verdict based only on what he reads in the newspaper? I'm sure you mean well but your enthusiasm to follow the herd offers no value to this conversation. And those who base an opinion on but one piece of evidence add little more.

Anyway, who do you think you are to make up criteria for MY opinion????? I have every right to comment on whatever I want to without your interpretation of it's basis. Once again this is a public forum and public ends with a "c" and not a "k" FWK.

**Aaron_S** · 05-28-15, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

so...based on observation of a couple of YouTube videos, he has been written off as a fool. his wife typically is the one taking the video...that's a "buddy system". Snake hooks/tongs? they're present, you may not see them (he uses hooks frequently). And then we have the admonition to keep (and by inference, use) a machete on the snakes if one gets wonky.

Viperkeeper videos plainly state that "just because i do it this way, you don't need to try this"...he may be showy, but he is def one of the more responsible hot keepers/handlers (with years and years of experience) I have seen. It's not my cup of tea, I have no desire to own hots...but I have respect for this guy.

eminart is on to something folks...contact the dude if you have issues. leave a comment on one of his videos...you don't dig what he's doing? great, glean what is applicable to you and move along. no need to bash the guy on forums, especially when he's not present to refute your accusations.

Matt, I get your point and agree on some levels. However, the internet has many wonderful uses but it also has it's pitfalls. A wide audience is great but I believe in this instance it's not. Too many people will see this and attempt what he does regardless of the disclaimer. The disclaimer is to hopfully keep any lawsuits from being filed/lost. Let's be real here, people like to think they're always the exception to the rule and above average. Someone will attempt what he does thinking they have it all figured out and get bit and possibly die.

The community shouldn't "in fight" but I also believe the community should ban together and make it known if need be that guys like the viperkeeper are outliers and NOT apart of the responsible community (if his newer methods are really that dangerous). We shouldn't harbour everyone in the "community" if what they do harm the image of us as a whole. As they say, we're only as good as our weakest link.

Side note, the analogies people use about stats of venomous injuries compared to french fries or cars is skewed. Far more people interact with french fries or cars on a daily basis which increases the chances of danger by huge amounts. How many people deal with cobras on a daily/regular basis in the United States in a private collection? Far less.

MDT · 05-28-15, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Let's be real here, people like to think they're always the exception to the rule and above average.

You are so right about this...compared to the "here, hold my beer and watch this" crowd, he does a better job (in my opinion...), that's all. Since I don't keep hots, I really don't have a large dog in this fight.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that I've seen a lot more goofball things done with hots than what VK does...especially when you look at the (fairly) recent posts (and bans) from the "free-handlers" of hots.

I'm gonna go get Albert some chamomile tea....I hear it has a calming effect.

**Aaron_S** · 05-28-15, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

You are so right about this...compared to the "here, hold my beer and watch this" crowd, he does a better job (in my opinion...), that's all. Since I don't keep hots, I really don't have a large dog in this fight.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that I've seen a lot more goofball things done with hots than what VK does...especially when you look at the (fairly) recent posts (and bans) from the "free-handlers" of hots.

I'm gonna go get Albert some chamomile tea....I hear it has a calming effect.

I agree in this instance that there's far worse people out there than VK. I was trying to steer my previous post to a more general statement about this type of behaviour.

It might keep the flaming down and less work for me

MDT · 05-28-15, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I agree in this instance that there's far worse people out there than VK. I was trying to steer my previous post to a more general statement about this type of behaviour.

It might keep the flaming down and less work for me

no worries! i'll reel my comments in too

SSSSnakes · 05-28-15, 04:16 PM

I don't know how many of the people who have posted here actually keep or handle venomous snakes, but I do. I keep and handle venomous snakes every day. There are many ways that may appear to be unsafe when handling a venomous snake, but with experienced keepers and handlers they are not. If it works for you,, then go with it. I may not agree with some of the things he does and I'm sure he would not agree with some of the things I do. One of the people he has trained, also has said that his ways may be careless but he told them to do what he teaches them and not what he does.

As a venomous keeper and mentor to some, there is never a completely safe way to handle a venomous snake, there is always a risk. Viperkeeper, Steve Erwin and myself, are not hobbyist. We are professional keepers and handlers, so we look at what may be considered dangerous in a different light. I personally have to follow certain rules and regulations to keep my licenses, which helps to make me a little safer. My enclosures are keyed locked and only someone who is licensed can handle my venomous snakes. I know when I am performing one of my shows, I tell the audience that I'm not a daredevil and I wear HexArmor gloves and use snake sticks to help protect myself. I have no need to try and boost my ego or popularity as being a risk taker. I think Viperkeeper, Steve Erwin and myself all feel, as Steve use to say, we do what we do so others will feel as passionate and love these animals as much as we do. You want to save things that you love.