Perentie! From the Northern Territory Australia

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Let's use a hypothetical example. Let's say V. olivaceus are still plentiful, but they will be in trouble soon. Would you establish a captive population, or do nothing while their habitat was destroyed, hoping you could stop it eventually?
I'm sorry Wayne. I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and everything you do, but on this we must agree to disagree.

Varanus olivaceus do terribly in confinement, Ask Ben Aller, ask Daniel Bennett, these creatures simply get sick and die.

As long as their habitat keeps getting mowed down for pineapple, coconut and oil palms, the species will perish.

[Pirarucu]

Exactly the problem. They most certainly perish in captivity as surely as they will in the wild. But do you truly believe that they are just genetically programmed to drop dead if confined to a box? Remember, older keeping techniques will kill other monitors in captivity very easily, so who is to say that we aren't just missing something when it comes to keeping olivaceus? It is far more likely that our husbandry is at fault, not the box.

You will never catch me saying that these animals belong in boxes. Never. Nor do I think most people should own them. In my opinion a minimum size for a monitor cage ought to be more like four times the length of the animal, not just twice. I am an idealist in every sense of the word, and I do not believe people should be keeping Perenties in ten foot boxes. But say a twenty or thirty foot long enclosure? Would keeping a Perentie in such a cage be so terrible?
I can't speak for whether their other requirements are being met or not, but is the size of this enclosure really so bad?
Australian Perentie Lizard Entertains - YouTube

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

But do you truly believe that they are just genetically programmed to drop dead if confined to a box? Remember, older keeping techniques will kill other monitors in captivity very easily, so who is to say that we aren't just missing something when it comes to keeping olivaceus? It is far more likely that our husbandry is at fault, not the box.

Hi, I totally agree with you, I don`t believe it`s the size of the box that kills them, more likely the conditions therein (though the size of the box is still "husbandry" to my mind).
I`m not sure having a box at least 4 times to adult length of a species will stop the (usually) premature deaths of most captive Varanids, it`s still a virtual "matchbox"!

[Pirarucu]

Oh I'm not saying the size of the box is the determining factor at all. Proper conditions are proper conditions, and they must be met before any success can be had.
I'm just saying that as far as space is concerned, I would consider the currently accepted minimums to be far too small to offer a monitor the space it really ought to have. A 4x cage would at least allow a bit of running space.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by infernalis

They key is to stop taking away the animal's natural habitats, and stop removing the animals from their habitats.

Stand up and protect the world heritage lands, don't steal her fauna.

I'm sorry but the animals of the world deserve a fate greater than life in a box.......

Hi Wayne, I think that what you say is very true, but in reality you, like most of us in the hobby contribute to the removal of these animals from the wild by insisting on having them with you, and in your case, for nothing more than an "experiment" (judging by what you`ve stated previously). And keeping two adult Savannah monitors in an 8 x 4 feet enclosure IS subjecting them to "solitary confinement" in every sense...
Then again, if the conditions support them in that tiny space they might still live long and (relatively) healthy lives (perhaps longer and healthier than if they`d remained in the wild)!?

[mdfmonitor]

It won't make no difference, humans will take till it's all gone, or just before!

then they'll try & put it back!!

there's no reason why you can't keep CBB in a box, if it's the right box or there abouts!

keepers with WC/CB should try & produce CBB!!

Imagine how many people would stop figthing for the wild if they hadn't at sometime put something in a box!!

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Oh I'm not saying the size of the box is the determining factor at all. Proper conditions are proper conditions, and they must be met before any success can be had.
I'm just saying that as far as space is concerned, I would consider the currently accepted minimums to be far too small to offer a monitor the space it really ought to have. A 4x cage would at least allow a bit of running space.

I understood that`s what you meant (and still agree).
I`m not sure how many of us can afford some of the larger species that amount of space in an enclosure (not me, unfortunately), but I/we can hopefully make the most of what we've got available for them.

[mdfmonitor]

How much of these vids are staged, or is it all true wild perentie action?

[Mellik's mamma]

great photos infernalis? i take this is what you do for a living? you have my dream job. another dream of mine is to have an animal rescue farm and save as many abused, neglected animals (all types) as possible and hopefully find great, loving owners or better yet, get them back to their intended home.

i agree with you. animals should never be trapped. it kills me to see my mellik "exploring" her home only to find out she can't go any further. idk what to do about this. i feel she will be my last pet b/c i feel so guilty. i got her from people who could no longer have her. great people, they just couldn't afford her. part of me wants to release her in the wild (somewhere she could survive of course), but at this point is she too domesticated? does that even exist for ball pythons?

i have been tempted to start a thread about all of us coming together to form a group that helps save animals and their environment. wonder if anyone else is interested. and how could we do it? will probably start a thread so this idea doesn't take over yours.

[Mellik's mamma]

and i am not saying anyone who owns a pet is a horrible person. as long as the animals' needs are taken care of and they are happy, it doesn't bother me so much.. i just wish we lived in a world where EVERYONE respected nature like we all do. and we didn't have to worry about extinction (human caused). humans make me sick. not you guys of course. you are all superior to humans

[kriminaal]

Great pics Wayne. My favourite as well. Absolutely amazing colours and patterns.
We were supposed to get a pair from Australia Zoo up here in Canada at Indian River Reptile Zoo. As soon as the funds were raised for a proper habitat and built they would be shipped up by the Irwins.
Unfortunately I don't know what happened to those plans as the funds didn't roll in (whats wrong with people?) Just checked their website and don't see any mention of it.
Would be a 4 hr drive for me to go see them. But it would be worth it and cheaper than going to Oz.