Your view of the reptile hobby

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by poison123

Just a selfish I can live with.

Ah see what I did there? ^ I'm good huh?

Not nearly as good as you think...

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Whatever man, I'm done arguing with you. You are full of lies.

I claimed to not want change? Back pedal? No I want change, I'd like to see change. It's just so minor and trivial. It's not worth it!

get this through your skull^. It's just a complaint I make during conversation like a salty meal. " This is a bit salty". I still eat the plate!



Ah I see. So the reason you're being annoying is because you are butthurt over the collector's item comment. You have no real reason to argue other than being personally hurt. Well I'm sorry and I apologize. I can see why you were doing nothing but ad-hominem attacks this whole time. It was kind of a "get back at me" kind of thing. It's okay you won. Happy? I'm not going to keep my opinion to myself. That's what this thread is about. Discussion. If you get butt-hurt not my problem. Grow some thicker skin.


edit: where did you get pokemon? LOL

1. I didn't lie. I don't need to. It's in your own posts.

2. This is all personal is it not? Was this not about what we want to change? I personally don't care who hates ball pythons but it's silly to attack it and then not want to try and change it. My point is specifically about expos. If people want to see something different then go and change that. It doesn't take anyone specifically to change that.

3. Sorry you took these all as personal attacks. They aren't. They are showing how your point may or may not be valid. Nothing personal on my part because I simply don't care about you enough to take it that way.

4. Pokemon part came from someone's post. Maybe if you actually read everything in your thread about change.

5. To you specifically, you made a thread about change. You then told everyone what you'd like to see changed. You then said you aren't anyone within a poisiton to make the change so why should you? You also said you don't care to change it but yet want to complain or "discuss" it.
If you care enough to "discuss" or complain about it then you care enough to change it.

In regards to your meal analogy. Going forward are you going to continue to make that same meal with as much salt or will you tone it down next time? Why would you make the same thing again knowing you prefer it with less salt?

It's the same thing here.

My mindset is if you want to complain about something needing change then go and do it. No one is stopping anyone from achieving that goal. I proved it when I, myself took on a role to support local bylaw changes enough to go to meetings.
You probably don't see how this matters in regards to change since you said it's irrelevant after bringing it to this thread...

Edit: This isn't about "winning" any argument. It's to tell people if they want something changed that they themselves can do it! That it IS possible for any hobbyiest, breeder or otherwise to change something on any kind of scale.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by formica

neither of those links are about this topic.

this is not YOUR hobby, it is all of ours, and nothing ever progresses without criticism, i dont see why you feel the need to take it personally and then attack everyone who points out things which need to be pointed out....because currently, people are happy to just forget those problems exist. Its really no wonder there are so many direct action and lobby groups attacking OUR hobby.

The topic is about change? How were those not about change? I answered someone's further inquiry into changing a specific topic in the current hobby.

Are you now telling me what I can and cannot discuss and how it's irrelavent to what YOU want to talk about? Nothing has to be railroaded into a specific topic...if it was considered detrimental to the conversation then the mods would deal with it.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by poison123

eh. Its easier if I just let someone else do it . I'm not in a hurry.

SO what you're saying is you expect someone else to do it. It hasn't happened yet and you think someone is just going to go and do it all for you. The sadder part is you won't even support that person. You said you'd take a pic (because you're cheap) and not support what YOU YOURSELF wanted to see changed! So what kind of encouragement is it to that person to continue that? Absolutely none.

Most likely it isn't going to happen if it hasn't already. It isn't like frogs are something brand new...

My expectation (and I guess that's where I was wrong in actually having any) is that this thread wouldn't just be complaints. It would spark discussion on what someone can do and was going to go do.

Instead we got people (and I use that term lightly) complaining about this and that (mostly common morph animals as per the usual) and expecting someone else to fix things because this that or the other thing.

This is why we have the government making and passing laws. The mindset is always "someone else will do it for me".

The truth is no one else is. Yes there are groups out there but they need actually support. Not some random petition (they don't work) with random names from places that are a 1000 miles away (politicians seriously don't care about those people).
The sadder truth is when I went to those meetings there were very few people in attendance for any support. It's sad that the giant keepers never showed up either.

I agree with Lori. If you aren't willling to do anything about it then you forfeit the right to complain.

Just like those people who don't vote but complain about the elected official.

[poison123]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

SO what you're saying is you expect someone else to do it.

Not expecting anything but I would like it if this happened.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

It hasn't happened yet and you think someone is just going to go and do it all for you. The sadder part is you won't even support that person. You said you'd take a pic (because you're cheap) and not support what YOU YOURSELF wanted to see changed! So what kind of encouragement is it to that person to continue that? Absolutely none.

Don't know why words are being put in my mouth now. I don't think anybody is going to do it for me. I said no such thing. All I said was "I would like to see". If someone did what I liked then I would support them by saying "good job" or a pat on the back if thats what you would like? May purchase the animal depending on what we're talking about.

[poison123]

My original post was not a complaint in any way. I just stated what I would like to see. No problem if something changes or not.

[psychocircus]

ITT: A couple of people don't believe in freedom of speech.

ITT: A couple people have never complained about anything before.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by poison123

Not expecting anything but I would like it if this happened.



Don't know why words are being put in my mouth now. I don't think anybody is going to do it for me. I said no such thing....

Huh? How about that? I put words into mouths.

Originally Posted by poison123

eh. Its easier if I just let someone else do it . I'm not in a hurry.

There's your quote saying you will "let" someone else do it because it's easier for you.

Fairly certain that means you think someone else will.

Another point I was trying to make earlier is exactly what you said about supporting someone. You will say "good job" like a lot of other people who wish to see something "different" at a show.
You all literally mean "see" something. You're using someone else's time, money and effort for you to have a cheap zoo experience. Quit complaining about it unless you plan to do something about it.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

ITT: A couple of people don't believe in freedom of speech.

ITT: A couple people have never complained about anything before.

I don't complain unless I'm willing to change something or because I have the right to complain as I took part in something. IE. when I vote and the elected official isn't the one I voted for so therefore I can complain when they are idiots.

[poison123]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Huh? How about that? I put words into mouths.



There's your quote saying you will "let" someone else do it because it's easier for you.

Fairly certain that means you think someone else will.

Another point I was trying to make earlier is exactly what you said about supporting someone. You will say "good job" like a lot of other people who wish to see something "different" at a show.
You all literally mean "see" something. You're using someone else's time, money and effort for you to have a cheap zoo experience. Quit complaining about it unless you plan to do something about it.

Haha. Aaron, ever feel like you take peoples post on the internet to seriously?

Again I did not say I think someone else will. I'm more so hoping they will. Even if I do think someone else will I still don't see a problem with waiting for someone else to spend the money. Seems like a smart way to go in my eyes .

Again I was not complaining about a single thing.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Quit complaining about it unless you plan to do something about it.

Not how the world works.

I don't plan on doing a single thing about it but I wont stop stating what I would like to see. And that is more unusual animals and less boring ball pythons.

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I don't complain unless I'm willing to change something or because I have the right to complain as I took part in something. IE. when I vote and the elected official isn't the one I voted for so therefore I can complain when they are idiots.

Never complained about something someone said or did? Never complained about a rough day of work? Never complained when something didn't go as planned? Okay

Originally Posted by poison123

Haha. Aaron, ever feel like you take peoples post on the internet to seriously?

Again I did not say I think someone else will. I'm more so hoping they will. Even if I do think someone else will I still don't see a problem with waiting for someone else to spend the money. Seems like a smart way to go in my eyes .

Again I was not complaining about a single thing.



Not how the world works.

I don't plan on doing a single thing about it but I wont stop stating what I would like to see. And that is more unusual animals and less boring ball pythons.

Exactly. No one is saying they're upset about the ball pythons. It's just something they would think would be cool if it was different. Nothing to get worked up about. This is a DISCUSSION board after all.

[limey]

My impression, other than agreeing with what others have said is this:

- Yes, too many people are crazy about these man-made "morphs". To quote a friend of mine "Morphs generally tend to attract the wrong type of people to the hobby".

- Wild phase animals are the most beautiful - they are what mother nature created, they have natural beauty and not been manipulated or selectively bred by humans to achieve a certain desired look or effect. Therefore, any upstanding naturalist should consider "normals" to be a staple of their "collection". If hoarding is what you are in to.

- There is a very small percentage of keepers that actually know what they are talking about, through and through. And of those that do, there is a tendency towards condescension of other reptile keepers. Such has been the occasional history on this forum (people butting heads, telling others they are wrong, or they know best etc).

All in all, there does tend to be a lot of reptile keepers with superiority complexes. That is one thing I would change - make more keepers "down to earth".

Outside the hobby itself - I would like to see more knowledge of reptiles throughout the world in general. To change social perceptions and our understanding of snakes. So many clueless or fearful people out there. It blows my mind.

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by limey

My impression, other than agreeing with what others have said is this:

- Yes, too many people are crazy about these man-made "morphs". To quote a friend of mine "Morphs generally tend to attract the wrong type of people to the hobby".

- Wild phase animals are the most beautiful - they are what mother nature created, they have natural beauty and not been manipulated or selectively bred by humans to achieve a certain desired look or effect. Therefore, any upstanding naturalist should consider "normals" to be a staple of their "collection". If hoarding is what you are in to.

- There is a very small percentage of keepers that actually know what they are talking about, through and through. And of those that do, there is a tendency towards condescension of other reptile keepers. Such has been the occasional history on this forum (people butting heads, telling others they are wrong, or they know best etc).

All in all, there does tend to be a lot of reptile keepers with superiority complexes. That is one thing I would change - make more keepers "down to earth".

Outside the hobby itself - I would like to see more knowledge of reptiles throughout the world in general. To change social perceptions and our understanding of snakes. So many clueless or fearful people out there. It blows my mind.

Well said. I agree with everything you said

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

1. I didn't lie. I don't need to. It's in your own posts.

2. This is all personal is it not? Was this not about what we want to change? I personally don't care who hates ball pythons but it's silly to attack it and then not want to try and change it. My point is specifically about expos. If people want to see something different then go and change that. It doesn't take anyone specifically to change that.

3. Sorry you took these all as personal attacks. They aren't. They are showing how your point may or may not be valid. Nothing personal on my part because I simply don't care about you enough to take it that way.

4. Pokemon part came from someone's post. Maybe if you actually read everything in your thread about change.

5. To you specifically, you made a thread about change. You then told everyone what you'd like to see changed. You then said you aren't anyone within a poisiton to make the change so why should you? You also said you don't care to change it but yet want to complain or "discuss" it.
If you care enough to "discuss" or complain about it then you care enough to change it.

In regards to your meal analogy. Going forward are you going to continue to make that same meal with as much salt or will you tone it down next time? Why would you make the same thing again knowing you prefer it with less salt?

It's the same thing here.

My mindset is if you want to complain about something needing change then go and do it. No one is stopping anyone from achieving that goal. I proved it when I, myself took on a role to support local bylaw changes enough to go to meetings.
You probably don't see how this matters in regards to change since you said it's irrelevant after bringing it to this thread...

Edit: This isn't about "winning" any argument. It's to tell people if they want something changed that they themselves can do it! That it IS possible for any hobbyiest, breeder or otherwise to change something on any kind of scale.

Well I did say numerous times I was going to quit arguing with you, but if theres one thing that riles me up, it's intellectual dishonesty.

You did lie. You claimed I back pedaled by saying I don't want change, and then I do want change. This never happened.




This is basically where our argument took off on the morph craze subject.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Here's a good question, instead of complaining about it on the internet, what are you currently doing to change it?

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Not exactly complaining, just expressing my views on the forum. Do I need to take action for every view I have? I personally don't see the overwhelming number of ball pythons at expos as a big deal. It's just something I'm stating while we are on the subject.

I'll just leave it at that.

[Terranaut]

This is why I avoided this thread altogether.