Your view of the reptile hobby

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Nothing against ball pythons keepers, breeders, fans...etc. Just with the overwhelming fascination with morphs. And if it were to go the same way with my favorite genus Morelia, I'd be saying the same thing. It just so happens that right now my view is aimed towards ball pythons... since it's a good example

And to add to my last post, the reason why I won't do much about it is because it's peoples' freedom to keep and breed what they want. If I don't like it, I'll just say it, I'm not going to actually try to stop people from doing what they do as long as others are not harmed.

A lot of people express the same "annoyance" with ball pythons and other commonly bred species being prevalent at expos. Yet none of those people are willing to change that. So why even mention it? Especially in a thread about changing the hobby. It's odd to talk about change then say there's no reason not to. Kind of makes the discussion moot if no one is willing to change anything...

You must be fairly new to the hobby. Carpet pythons had their time in the sunlight and people were buying them like crazy to make Jaguar this and that. It actually picked back up a few years ago with the zebra's and granites and albinos.

Nothing quite like the ball python world but it sure did happen where people were buying them up for the "next big thing". So it already happened with your favourite.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

A lot of people express the same "annoyance" with ball pythons and other commonly bred species being prevalent at expos. Yet none of those people are willing to change that. So why even mention it? Especially in a thread about changing the hobby. It's odd to talk about change then say there's no reason not to. Kind of makes the discussion moot if no one is willing to change anything...

Never said there's no reason not to. Just saying I probably can't make much of a difference myself since a) I'm not a big name breeder b) I can't tell others not to breed ball python morphs. But the change is something I would like to see....which was actually the original theme of the thread. I can discuss this can I not? Call it moot if you want, I'm just here to discuss. If you don't see a point in this, you don't need to participate.

Again you seem to be missing my point. What I'm doing about it is discussing it, spreading ideas, sharing ideas....etc. Conversation goes a long way. I'm not going to be a hero and take radical action against this trivial annoyance. Stop trying to get me to do something about it! LOL

You must be fairly new to the hobby. Carpet pythons had their time in the sunlight and people were buying them like crazy to make Jaguar this and that. It actually picked back up a few years ago with the zebra's and granites and albinos.

Nothing quite like the ball python world but it sure did happen where people were buying them up for the "next big thing". So it already happened with your favourite.

Fairly new yes. Not completely new.

I am well aware of how carpet pythons were then and are now . However as you said yourself, it's not nearly as bad. Not so bad it takes up the majority of most expos. Not so bad since there is still a valuable market for "normals and locales". Within any given genus/species....etc there are people who will just like the species for the morphs. When it comes to jags and such... I also view that aspect of carpet pythons in a negative way, and I talk about it when it is relevant.

But since it is relevant now, yes even with carpet pythons I don't get the whole craze over jaguars... but I'm not trying to stop people from keeping/breeding them.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I find it adorable when people who have no clue what their talking about try and come off like they do.

I know a handful of people (including myself) that were at a local council meeting and got the proposed all out exotic ban to convert to a 2 meter rule for snakes. That's not everything but it certainly proved your theory wrong.

Glad to know you're only willing to complain about it over the internet and not actually do anything about it.

Forgive me for my assumptions, but is this where you get your "do something about it" attitude? If so why bring that mindset over to this thread? It has no relevance.

There are no council meetings for " make them stop producing ball pythons morphs!"

Again, the ball python craze is a trivial annoyance. I'm going to ask you to stop bothering me about taking action. I call THAT moot.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Forgive me for my assumptions, but is this where you get your "do something about it" attitude? If so why bring that mindset over to this thread? It has no relevance.

There are no council meetings for " make them stop producing ball pythons morphs!"

Again, the ball python craze is a trivial annoyance. I'm going to ask you to stop bothering me about taking action. I call THAT moot.

You looked in the wrong thread.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You looked in the wrong thread.

I know it was in a different thread, but I'm asking you if you got that mindset from the fact that you are one of those people who "did something about it". That's why I said forgive me for assuming.

And if that is where you got that mindset, I was making my previous comment in response to that fact.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Never said there's no reason not to. Just saying I probably can't make much of a difference myself since a) I'm not a big name breeder b) I can't tell others not to breed ball python morphs. But the change is something I would like to see....which was actually the original theme of the thread. I can discuss this can I not? Call it moot if you want, I'm just here to discuss. If you don't see a point in this, you don't need to participate.

Again you seem to be missing my point. What I'm doing about it is discussing it, spreading ideas, sharing ideas....etc. Conversation goes a long way. I'm not going to be a hero and take radical action against this trivial annoyance. Stop trying to get me to do something about it! LOL



Fairly new yes. Not completely new.

I am well aware of how carpet pythons were then and are now . However as you said yourself, it's not nearly as bad. Not so bad it takes up the majority of most expos. Not so bad since there is still a valuable market for "normals and locales". Within any given genus/species....etc there are people who will just like the species for the morphs. When it comes to jags and such... I also view that aspect of carpet pythons in a negative way, and I talk about it when it is relevant.

But since it is relevant now, yes even with carpet pythons I don't get the whole craze over jaguars... but I'm not trying to stop people from keeping/breeding them.

You want to know why carpet pythons never caught on like ball pythons? Nobody fricking wanted to buy them. People grow tired of the "different" and all that species entails. They go back to the ball pythons or other "easy" species.

Secondly, this has been discussed for YEARS about change. You've brought nothing new to the table. Conversation DOES NOT go a long way because this conversation has been done at least yearly for the past 5 years. Yet, there's still no change....I've been around long enough to actually know this by the way.

If it's so trivial then why even make a thread about changing the landscape of the hobby? You clearly are talking out two sides of your mouth just to always try and keep your self in some positive light.

What makes anyone think that because they aren't a "big name" they can't change something? You know you could raise up some snakes of whatever species. Get a table at a show and change just that single table from xx common morph to something "different". Simple as that.

Don't come asking others to change when you yourself aren't even open to doing it yourself.

You're also the only one currently even talking in this thread and it's an open call to be honest. ANYONE who doesn't like ball pythons being so prevalent at expos should step up and make a change themselves. Heck just go and get 2 other friends to buy a pair of a different species too and you can all split on a table at a show and hock 3 "brand new" and "different" species.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

Sorry this is a little off topic, but it goes back to the "general" exotics that were mentioned.

Lady bug, how do you feel about captive animals that are bred in part because they are endangered in the wild? If these animals are "weaker" than their wild counterparts, then is it selfish to raise them in captivity?

Would it be better to let the species go extinct because they are not truly thriving in captivity? After all, there are still other motives in keeping those captive animals.

I feel very strongly for conservation. But there are a lot of zoos that do things wrong. I'm lucky to have visited zoos and serpntariums in 3 different countries. Some good some bad,

The zoos that work with wildlife conservation trying to replenish natural populations, or strive to keep animals in captivity that would otherwise be extinct usually do a good job of ethical care, they have the resources the private sector does not. The ones that don't (SeaWorld for example) should have licenses revoked.

So its clear for you mikoh

I don't lump captivity for pleasure in with captivity for conservation. For me the context of why the animal is in captivity holds just as much ethical weight as the care itself.

[CosmicOwl]

I don't think there is inherently a problem with ball pythons being really popular. In my opinion, the problem is more that people are buying BPs just for the sake of breeding morphs. I find it shallow for people to latch onto whatever is the new morph, and constantly sell/trade their snakes. To me, it's a negative aspect of the community. Breeding BP's isn't itself bad, just becoming obsessed with attaining the latest morphs and treating animals like objects.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Forgive me for my assumptions, but is this where you get your "do something about it" attitude? If so why bring that mindset over to this thread? It has no relevance.

There are no council meetings for " make them stop producing ball pythons morphs!"

Again, the ball python craze is a trivial annoyance. I'm going to ask you to stop bothering me about taking action. I call THAT moot.

Nothing to do with council meetings.

You want to know why it's relevant? You created a thread about change. I have the mindset if you want something changed then go and do it. How is that irrelevant? You're literally being obtuse to try and make your point.

Oh that's right. It flies in the face of YOUR view so it can't possibly mean anything to a thread about change.

There's a LOT someone can do to "change" things. They just need to get off their lazy *** and do something about it. Don't need any meetings or discussions to do it. Just go out and raise a 1.1 of any "different" species and attempt to produce offspring.

It's straight forward.

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I feel very strongly for conservation. But there are a lot of zoos that do things wrong. I'm lucky to have visited zoos and serpntariums in 3 different countries. Some good some bad,

The zoos that work with wildlife conservation trying to replenish natural populations, or strive to keep animals in captivity that would otherwise be extinct usually do a good job of ethical care, they have the resources the private sector does not. The ones that don't (SeaWorld for example) should have licenses revoked.

So its clear for you mikoh

I don't lump captivity for pleasure in with captivity for conservation. For me the context of why the animal is in captivity holds just as much ethical weight as the care itself.

But by the notion of what you have mentioned in previous posts, what is the point of preventing an animal from becoming extinct, just to keep it in captivity (for the ones that are maintained in captivity, rather than bred to release the young)? Most of these are kept in "zoo" settings. If they only remain captives, is that not selfish and for human purpose only?

Not disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate based on what's been said so far in this thread.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Nothing to do with council meetings.

You want to know why it's relevant? You created a thread about change. I have the mindset if you want something changed then go and do it. How is that irrelevant? You're literally being obtuse to try and make your point.

Oh that's right. It flies in the face of YOUR view so it can't possibly mean anything to a thread about change.

There's a LOT someone can do to "change" things. They just need to get off their lazy *** and do something about it. Don't need any meetings or discussions to do it. Just go out and raise a 1.1 of any "different" species and attempt to produce offspring.

It's straight forward.

Yes but what change is there to make? People like creating morphs, people like buying morphs. That's something that I "dislike" but there's nothing to change. Why do you keep telling me to do something about it? I can have a negative opinion about something, but if it's something people want to do who am I to try to stop that? Especially when it's not violating me in anyway?


And raising 1.1 of a species won't change anything. I am currently raising "1.1's" to keep as pets and have fun breeding in the future. Why recommend that as a method of change?

Oh that's right. It flies in the face of YOUR view so it can't possibly mean anything to a thread about change.

I don't know what this statement was for, but basically you are taking this very personally and seriously over my statement of dislike for the ball python morph craze. I was just giving my input to this thread's topic and you are the one dragging this trivial issue along.

It's straight forward

What's straight forward is the OP.

"What is your view on the reptile hobby as of now? What are some changes that would make it "better" in your opinion? In what direction would you like to see this hobby go?".

My input to that question was that I have distaste for the morph craze, particularly with ball pythons... but as I've explained time and time again, there's no real change to be done. That's just what people like right now. Has nothing to do with being lazy.

You confuse me because most of your posts are filled with ad-hominem. What personal problems do you have with me?

You have the last word. I've taken the time to try to get you to understand my points. If you don't get it by now, you won't get it anytime soon. You win, I lose.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You want to know why carpet pythons never caught on like ball pythons? Nobody fricking wanted to buy them. People grow tired of the "different" and all that species entails. They go back to the ball pythons or other "easy" species.

Secondly, this has been discussed for YEARS about change. You've brought nothing new to the table. Conversation DOES NOT go a long way because this conversation has been done at least yearly for the past 5 years. Yet, there's still no change....I've been around long enough to actually know this by the way.

If it's so trivial then why even make a thread about changing the landscape of the hobby? You clearly are talking out two sides of your mouth just to always try and keep your self in some positive light.

What makes anyone think that because they aren't a "big name" they can't change something? You know you could raise up some snakes of whatever species. Get a table at a show and change just that single table from xx common morph to something "different". Simple as that.

Don't come asking others to change when you yourself aren't even open to doing it yourself.

You're also the only one currently even talking in this thread and it's an open call to be honest. ANYONE who doesn't like ball pythons being so prevalent at expos should step up and make a change themselves. Heck just go and get 2 other friends to buy a pair of a different species too and you can all split on a table at a show and hock 3 "brand new" and "different" species.

Too many assumptions, accusations, and personal attacks here. Only thing I'll respond to is this statement.

If it's so trivial then why even make a thread about changing the landscape of the hobby? You clearly are talking out two sides of your mouth just to always try and keep your self in some positive light.

Because it's not just about my views. I'm giving my input, and would like to hear other people's input on the topic. That's all. Do you expect every thread to be a revolution? Get real. Ever heard of casual? Or are you always this serious.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

But by the notion of what you have mentioned in previous posts, what is the point of preventing an animal from becoming extinct, just to keep it in captivity (for the ones that are maintained in captivity, rather than bred to release the young)? Most of these are kept in "zoo" settings. If they only remain captives, is that not selfish and for human purpose only?

Not disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate based on what's been said so far in this thread.

It depends sometimes conservation is needed to restore the balance of the ecosystem. For example dwindling bat populations affect insect numbers and in turn negatively impact other animals spreading disease.

Dwindling honey bee populations affect pollination and therefore food supplies for both animals and humans in the ecosystem are affected

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I feel very strongly for conservation. But there are a lot of zoos that do things wrong. I'm lucky to have visited zoos and serpntariums in 3 different countries. Some good some bad,

The zoos that work with wildlife conservation trying to replenish natural populations, or strive to keep animals in captivity that would otherwise be extinct usually do a good job of ethical care, they have the resources the private sector does not. The ones that don't (SeaWorld for example) should have licenses revoked.

So its clear for you mikoh

I don't lump captivity for pleasure in with captivity for conservation. For me the context of why the animal is in captivity holds just as much ethical weight as the care itself.

And with this I agree with you.

I was just trying to get a direct answer out of you before, and you have given a direct answer.

[marvelfreak]

My view of the reptile hobby? It's full of drama queens who instead of trying to help and educate new people about the hobby would rather argue among themselves. This hobby will always be view as a joke by outsiders because 80% of the people in it act so childish.

Always have to have the last word.
Always will argue till your blue in the face even when you don't have a leg to stand on.
Can never let things just die.
Can't just admit they don't know it all or maybe i was wrong about something.

The fact that threads like this full of childish bickering get more views and post than someone asking for help. Just makes me shake my head in shame.