Problem in our industry

[Aaron_S]

Andy_G is the problem in the industry.

That is all.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Andy_G is the problem in the industry.

That is all.

Why you dirty...

[dave himself]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Andy_G is the problem in the industry.

That is all.

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Why you dirty...

Pistols at dawn

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Why you dirty...

I like to entertain myself.

Originally Posted by dave himself

Pistols at dawn

Let's do a classic musket fight instead! 20 paces.

[trailblazer295]

Originally Posted by dave himself

Pistols at dawn

Wait you skipped the step where Aaron gets slapped with a glove "you insulted my honor. I challenge you to a duel"

[dave himself]

.



Let's do a classic musket fight instead! 20 paces.[/QUOTE]

With blindfolds

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

Wait you skipped the step where Aaron gets slapped with a glove "you insulted my honor. I challenge you to a duel"

I demand satisfaction this hilarious

[Jack4193]

I appreciate it that someone has started discussing this. I am 14 and have 2 corns and 1 BP. I have already made a decision that i am never going to give up these snakes, i got them as babies and have raised the corns for 3 years and the BP for half a year and intend to have them their entire life, 20 years or more, I don't care. I am afraid that if i give them up someone, as the original starter of this discussion put it, someone who just wants a pet, not the responsibility, and without the responsibility there is no fun in keeping reptiles, the challenge of keeping them happy if what is enjoyable. Now i by no means think im a perfect keeper, i fall behind on cleaning sometimes and im not always patient but they still mean a lot to me, they are the only animals i have kept in my life, i don't have a dog, a cat, a fish, i have one of the most unusual pets for a teenager and i enjoy not having the same as everybody else, that doesn't mean you can get a cool animal like this and just not care for it properly, you have to do research and understand the responsibility. I have nothing for cruel herp keepers but loathing, they are selfish, irresponsible and oblivious to how they are hurting our hobby. The government will ban the keeping of these extraordinary exotic animals because they are being harmed by people who don't care. I hope we can preserve the ability to keep these animals.

[pet_snake_78]

The government isn't going to ban herps because of bad keepers. The government is and will ban most herps because they are being successfully lobbied by animal rights activists who are against the keeping of all animals regardless of conditions and believe that humans and animals must have no contact. They also are doing their best to shut down zoos, for example. Their agenda is still a little too radical for the average joe so what they do is setup psuedo environmental organizations. Their pamphlets tell you the money is going to save wildlife, homeless animals, etc. Then they take that money and lobby or sue the government to get insane laws passed that do nothing to help animals but achieve their goals of making it more difficult or impossible to keep certain species in captivity. Little by little the list you're allowed to keep or cross state lines with is dwindling. None of these laws do anything to protect the animals. We already know why animals become rare and that's primarily habitat destruction.

Right now we are trying to reconstruct the passenger pigeon through modifying related birds. Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier if someone actually had a few hundred of the *actual* birds in captivity. Of course, you can't just take a 13th generation captive animal and throw it out in the wild, but here is a living example of where true conservationists could speed their project up by decades if someone had just kept a few flocks going? In many parts of the world palm plantations are going to cause species we have in captivity to go extinct, no if ands or butts about it, it will happen. It would be a shame if no one could ever study a living species again simply because the government stopped private citizens from continuing to keep and breed those that made it here. Bare in midn the few that made it here were on deaths doorstep and generally found during the very act of new roads and clearings for said palm plantations.

The real problem with the reptile industry is apathy and a lack of organization. The craigslist type keepers will always be there. They are already breaking existing laws by keeping animals in neglectful conditions and I do not have sympathy for them if they get caught and their animals taken away but it's not really a reptile problem, it's an all animals kept by people who they themselves do not mind living in filth problem. In the US, usark is doing an amazing job but it won't be enough, at best it will slow down bans slightly.

[pet_snake_78]

Jeez I just read what I wrote and it sounded a little dark lol I don't want to be that guy so I wanted to add a positive note here. There are many many up and coming keepers in Asia. I believe Asia will eventually become the dominant continent for reptile keeping. The guys coming up there that I've spoken with are having success with new forms and species of Asian snakes that we do not have in the US. They are also bringing in species from the world over which are rare here in the US and hopefully they will have success with them. How some of those animals got there is a bit curious however.

[sattva]

Man has a tendency to drive to extinction what he doesn't want or need... Take the cow for instance... If man didn't use it for it's hide and food, it would probably be on the endangered species list...You know like we did to the poor buffalo... I think most of the snakes, owned by the general population today, would not be here if it weren't for breeders and people like you and me... It's all about desire, supply and demand! You know, Ye olde cash flow...

[pet_snake_78]

Ya it sort of ties in with hunting. In MO (where most of my experience is) hunting finances huge amounts of land. People also buy acres and just leave them set aside for hunting. An insurance salesman bought a really good piece of hunting land. Now, he's not stupid and he doesn't hunt, but he knows access to that land makes him very popular with those who he can give it to.They keep buying insurance from him! Now, it's true he doesn't give a rats rear end about reptiles but unknown to him he has preserved hundreds of snakes living under rocks and in rocky crevices on that land... actually they'd probably be terrified if they knew how many venomous snakes were living there lol MO also gives landowners monies if they allow public hunting on their land. I've never used the program myself as my family only has about 80 acres, but I know it exists. I've also convinced my family not to kill reptiles on the land. Now they send me pictures of live snakes rather than posting pics of dead snakes for me to identify. Finally, in a few places, a sustainable harvest of reptiles has been going on for many years. The trick is to educate people that they need to collect at or above the carrying capacity of the land. For the pet trade, the need to keep them alive somewhat acts as a natural buffer, for the food trade I think it's a legitimate concern. Fortunately, decades of game management experience can help guide that conversation.