Nose Rubbing

**Minkness** · 07-09-16, 08:21 PM

Well, I think I have a serious nose rubber.

What causes this behavior?

Is there a way to stop it?

Do snakes 'grow out of it'?

Other than a nose bump, what are the more serious issues this causes?

**Andy_G** · 07-09-16, 08:39 PM

Breeding response, confinement/insufficient space, mites, new surroundings, incorrect temps (usually too hot)...basically stress cause nose rubbing behaviour. Extreme cases of nose rub can cause permanent disfigurement and infections in not only tissues of the mouth, nose and snout...but also the bones of the skull themselves which could kill an individual. I remember selling a 7 year old male hog island who was in perfect health. The following breeding season he was rubbing and he ultimately died in that other person's care and it happened rather quickly while this person went on a 2 week vacay.

Reduce all sources of stress that you can and please don't keep whatever snake is rubbing in anything with a screened surface until it ceases, Logan. If this is your new hog island then keep a close eye on those bumps too...could be the start of infection.

**Minkness** · 07-09-16, 09:54 PM

Well...all I really have are screen lids =/

What are signs should I watch out for if it turns out to be an infection?
And yes, it's my new hog island. Are they known for rubbing?

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-09-16, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

Well...all I really have are screen lids =/

What are signs should I watch out for if it turns out to be an infection?
And yes, it's my new hog island. Are they known for rubbing?

Boas can be known for rubbing, yes. If the snake is in a cage that's Length+Width=the snake's length, try getting a bigger cage where the Length is equal to the snake's length.

Double check your temps, make sure the ambients are in the high 70's, low 80's, and the hot spot is 88F.

Buy a tub if you have to, but as Andy said, your boa is going to lacerate its face up if you keep it in a screen top tank. A tub shouldn't cost you more than ~$25 if you get the absolute biggest clear tub you can find. If you don't already have heat tape on hand, buy some, it's the best way to provide heat in a tub. You do have the snake's heat on a thermostat, right?

Do you run A/C in the snake's room? I've found that snakes absolutely hate A/C, so don't keep them very close to the A/C.

How are you feeding it? Boas do best with less food than you'd think, and overfeeding will cause them to rub just as much as underfeeding will.

The infections from nose rub would be the same as mouth rot, the mouth will swell up, turn discolored, and fluids will leak out of it. Abscesses can also form, which is what I guess that bump is.

You need to get the snake to a vet, this can be a life threatening condition.

**Minkness** · 07-10-16, 12:19 AM

BSG, I only just got her today. She's super tiny, so I doubt getting the biggest tub possible will be a good idea. If I have to, I'll just put tape on the underside of the screen. That should smooth it out fine. As for AC, it doesn't blow much in the room and the fan I have to circulate airflow is facing away from her.

I haven't fed ger yet because as mentioned, I only JUST got her today. If rubbing is stress related that would make sense since she was being kept with 4 of her sisters in a standard hatchling rack. So there was definitely insufficient space in that. Not to mention the hour+ drive home (which I did run the AC in my car).

I will certainly keep an eye on her and if it continues I will take her to the vet. Temps all check out normal in her current enclosure, but the hatchling tub felt a bit too warm and a bit too humid imo but I don't have numbers for that do no telling. She was the most active of her sisters as well, so no telling. If it's too severe in the next week though, I may take her back as she did come with a 30 day health guarantee, and I would consider that a health thing.

I peeked in on her before bed and she finally quit cruising, so perhaps she just needs tine to settle in.

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-10-16, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

BSG, I only just got her today. She's super tiny, so I doubt getting the biggest tub possible will be a good idea. If I have to, I'll just put tape on the underside of the screen. That should smooth it out fine. As for AC, it doesn't blow much in the room and the fan I have to circulate airflow is facing away from her.

I haven't fed ger yet because as mentioned, I only JUST got her today. If rubbing is stress related that would make sense since she was being kept with 4 of her sisters in a standard hatchling rack. So there was definitely insufficient space in that. Not to mention the hour+ drive home (which I did run the AC in my car).

I will certainly keep an eye on her and if it continues I will take her to the vet. Temps all check out normal in her current enclosure, but the hatchling tub felt a bit too warm and a bit too humid imo but I don't have numbers for that do no telling. She was the most active of her sisters as well, so no telling. If it's too severe in the next week though, I may take her back as she did come with a 30 day health guarantee, and I would consider that a health thing.

I peeked in on her before bed and she finally quit cruising, so perhaps she just needs tine to settle in.

Ah ok, then we probably won't know what's causing it. It's stress of some sort, but we won't know where from, and it may clear up in your care.

You can make the tub as big as you want, just clutter it up with hides and cover. I have my little 80 gram anery motley boa in a 66 qt tub and he's settled into it nicely. He's not even as long as the tub, but he's proven to be an active squirmy baby, so he really benefits from the space.

I would still be wary if the A/C is in the same room, I had my ghost boa in a room with A/C to give her her shot today, and it got her to hissing and striking even though the air wasn't hitting her directly. We turned it off and she calmed down quickly. I have an A/C unit on the other end of the trailer, but it's outside the snake room, and I just let the cold air travel into the room.

At this point, I'd just keep an eye on her and make sure the rubbing doesn't get worse. If there's an open sore or cuts, then you know she's still rubbing.

**Minkness** · 07-10-16, 04:58 AM

No open sore or cuts from what I can see. Just a bump. And I'm not sure what you mean about AC in the room. It's got a vent and is connected to central heat/air, which the room has to have if I am to be able to regulate temps at all. Otherwise the heat would sky rocket.

**Andy_G** · 07-10-16, 05:16 AM

I respectfully disagree with getting the biggest tub possible and cluttering it and i'll explain why. Baby boas will do better in a smaller tub, and putting a new one such as that will encourage rubbing, not discourage it. I see no point in creating more to clean and therefore more time bothering the baby doing so. I always kept littermates together in small groups on moist paper towel in shoe box size bins until their first shed when I would seperate them for feeding and they'd get their own so I am not confident that is a significant stressor... A very active baby boa is usually a stressed one I have found, and a baby's very arboreal nature (although boas are semi-arboreal, babies are even more so) is in order to feel more secure while exposed. The fact that boas have a slower metabolism and are purely ambush predators by nature would indicate that they would prefer to preserve energy. I also think thag cooler air coming from an A/C would "slow down" the boa and make it more sluggish, not the other way around. Excessive heat as I mentioned would more likely be a stressor. You mentioned mites and they will trigger rubbing BIG TIME.

You know what you're doing as far as new acquisitions go Logan, just see if you can avoid using any screen for now and monitor the bumps for changes and do the usual leave alone and feed after a week, etc. Sometimes these small abcesses are benign and take care of themselves but monitor it.

**Minkness** · 07-10-16, 05:22 AM

Thanks Andy!

Do you think putting duct tape on the underside of the screen will help?

Also, these babies are a few months old, have shed 3 times and been regular feeders. The ones who had not been regular feeders were not yet available but she let me look at them and there was a SERIOUS difference.

I'm really thinking that the tub may have been too warm as the heat kind of rolled out when I opened the tub.

Also, I have provided a climb for her that goes almost up to the top and that's where she does most of her hanging out right now. I will get a pic of the set up later today. I was in a bit of a rush yesterday.

**Andy_G** · 07-10-16, 05:55 AM

Im leary of using tape in an enclosure. All it takes is for one corner to get loose and the snake to stick to it...im sure she will settle soon.

**Minkness** · 07-10-16, 05:57 AM

Fair enough. What other suggestions do you have for covering the screen on the inside? Maybe I could use silicone? Scrape a layer on it and let it dry maybe? That takes like 24 hrs to cure though....hmmmm....

Ian of Oldham · 07-10-16, 08:36 AM

What about getting a bit of hard board and put holes in the corner and then pin it to the top with string or something

**Minkness** · 07-10-16, 10:55 AM

Good idea, but I don't know where to get board. But now that you have said that, I have another idea. =)

I will glue some shelving liner onto it. Should work perfect! And it's soft so will definitely help woth any rubbing issues.

Ian of Oldham · 07-10-16, 11:47 AM

Cool good luck.

**Minkness** · 07-10-16, 01:06 PM

Ok, improved her enclosure a bit. More hiding places, that are also smaller than the log she had, and 2 climbing things. I also sealed the screen with tape but secured the edges with glue so no corners can come loose!

How long does it usually take to see improvement of the bump once they have stopped rubbing?