Trouble with a very brazen snake.

CosmicOwl · 05-13-14, 10:55 AM

Not too long ago, I posted a thread asking for a bit of advice on what do with my juvenile bloodred corn snake. The advice was helpful, but the situation itself seems to be getting worse. Honestly, I expect a snake to be shy, if not defensive. To me, that's a pretty easy behavior to work around. However, I have the complete opposite with this girl. It's not just a matter of her biting anything that comes in the environment... She's extremely energetic and manages to find her way to the top of the tub before I can even undo the latches. This worries me. If I get bit, it won't hurt me much, but I'm afraid that in her attempts to get food she will manage to make it out of the tub and escape before I can catch her. Being that she isn't even a year old, she could easily slip out of my hands and then who knows what happens.

There may be no solution for the time being, but I'm asking you guys for a bit of help. How can I discourage her from always from coming to the top of the tub? Should I remove the climbing furniture? Or should I utilize another safety precaution in case she makes it out of the tub?

jpsteele80 · 05-13-14, 11:25 AM

Not sure if I saw the other post but can I ask what your feeding her, maybe you could post a pic of her and the size of prey your feeding her, just taking a guess but it sounds as if she may still be hungry, like I said this is just a guess from the info you posted above.

sharthun · 05-13-14, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsteele80

Not sure if I saw the other post but can I ask what your feeding her, maybe you could post a pic of her and the size of prey your feeding her, just taking a guess but it sounds as if she may still be hungry, like I said this is just a guess from the info you posted above.

I agree, could just be a matter of feeding larger meals.

CosmicOwl · 05-13-14, 11:41 AM

I've thought about the food, but she's being fed pretty well. I'm giving her a medium-large fuzzy every 4-5 days. My grey rat is larger and eats the same prey on the same schedule and doesn't behave similarly.

sharthun · 05-13-14, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicOwl

I've thought about the food, but she's being fed pretty well. I'm giving her a medium-large fuzzy every 4-5 days. My grey rat is larger and eats the same prey on the same schedule and doesn't behave similarly.

How large is she? Have any pics?

jpsteele80 · 05-13-14, 11:44 AM

Doesn't mean she still isn't hungry, every snake is different, is there a noticeable bulge in the midsection after she is finished?

CosmicOwl · 05-13-14, 12:51 PM

The only pictures I have are from shortly after I first got her. When I feed her again, I will try to get some. I don't weigh my snakes, because it seems like added stress, but she's about 20-22 inches long and maybe 1/2" thick. I'm feeding her prey items that are thicker around that she is and they do leave a lump. Maybe I'm wrong about the food, but I already bumped her up to more frequent feedings since the last thread and her temperament has only become more excitable. I can definitely try feeding her even more often, but then I worry about overfeeding. How do you tell if the snake is eating out of a legitimate need for more food or instinct?

Maybe these concerns seem silly, but I'm always a bit hesitant to change things with my snakes.

jpsteele80 · 05-13-14, 01:07 PM

It's better to give bigger meals than to feed smaller meals more often, give that digestive track some time to rest a little, that might be a reason she is so food aggressive is because you feed her then maybe give her 2 days to digest a little, maybe handle her a little on the 3rd day and on the fourth day she's getting food again. If she is a half inch round I would think she should be able to handle an adult mouse

CosmicOwl · 05-13-14, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsteele80

It's better to give bigger meals than to feed smaller meals more often, give that digestive track some time to rest a little, that might be a reason she is so food aggressive is because you feed her then maybe give her 2 days to digest a little, maybe handle her a little on the 3rd day and on the fourth day she's getting food again. If she is a half inch round I would think she should be able to handle an adult mouse

No offense JP, but I've seen both opinions. Some people feel that snakes should be fed smaller meals more often, while others feel they should be fed larger meals less often. I've been feeding smaller meals more often because I have been reading several people stating that this method has allowed them to keep snakes in good health for 20 years or more. I want to keep my snakes healthy for as long as possible.

I suppose I could move up to something like hoppers, but I don't see her being able to eat an adult mouse. At least not any adult mouse I've come across. However, I think I will try giving her larger meals less often to see if it has any effect on her behavior.

**EL Ziggy** · 05-13-14, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicOwl

I've thought about the food, but she's being fed pretty well. I'm giving her a medium-large fuzzy every 4-5 days. My grey rat is larger and eats the same prey on the same schedule and doesn't behave similarly.

I vary my colubrids feeding schedule and meal size. The intervals are longer after big meals (7-10 days) and shorter after smaller meals (5-7 days). Both my kings are yearlings and my bull is about 8 months old. They're a little larger than your corn and they all eat (2) medium-large mice or rat fuzzys/pups per feeding. If you're comfortable with your prey size and feeding schedule you could try giving her 2 prey items per feeding and see if that helps.

IW17 · 05-13-14, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsteele80

It's better to give bigger meals than to feed smaller meals more often, give that digestive track some time to rest a little, that might be a reason she is so food aggressive is because you feed her then maybe give her 2 days to digest a little, maybe handle her a little on the 3rd day and on the fourth day she's getting food again. If she is a half inch round I would think she should be able to handle an adult mouse

Gotta disagree. Smaller meals more often are the way to go more often than not. Just because snakes can handle large meals and go long periods without food doesn'tmean tthat's the healthiest option. I feed young colubrids biweekly, and the Prey is generally not too much larger than its midsection. Once they peak and stop noticeably growing I'll drop down to one meal every 7-10 days, usually 7. If one snake is always in hunt mode anytime I come in contact I'll bump up the feeding schedule to accommodate, but keep and eye on its weight to ensure its not getting obese.

Jim Smith · 05-13-14, 06:02 PM

I'm not sure the question that CosmicOwl asked actually has anything to do with prey size or the feeding response. I have one young Honduran Milk Snake that is still housed in a tub while I await his permanent cage to be delivered. He constantly crawls to the top of a tub and lays along the ridge by the handle on the tub. I think he does this because he feels hidden and more secure and I believe he's looking for a way to escape. I have the same problem with them when I open the tub. He's as quick as a cat and I have to be VERY careful that he doesn't get away from me when I open the tub. This problem will go away when I get him in his permanent cage. For Cosmic Owl, I think the problem will go away either when he changes the cage to a front opening cage or his snake grows too large to hide up near the top. Just my 2 cents worth.

mclund · 05-14-14, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

I'm not sure the question that CosmicOwl asked actually has anything to do with prey size or the feeding response. I have one young Honduran Milk Snake that is still housed in a tub while I await his permanent cage to be delivered. He constantly crawls to the top of a tub and lays along the ridge by the handle on the tub. I think he does this because he feels hidden and more secure and I believe he's looking for a way to escape. I have the same problem with them when I open the tub. He's as quick as a cat and I have to be VERY careful that he doesn't get away from me when I open the tub. This problem will go away when I get him in his permanent cage. For Cosmic Owl, I think the problem will go away either when he changes the cage to a front opening cage or his snake grows too large to hide up near the top. Just my 2 cents worth.

Jim pretty much hit the nail on the head. What you expect the snake to act like really doesn't matter. It's not up to you. it's just the snakes temperament. I also doubt it's food related. A larger meal will usually subdue the animal for a few days, but only to digest. I agree with most everyone else that larger prey items are not the best choice, but at that size 1 adult mouse weekly will produce a small lump and be gone in a day if your temps are correct. Do you have a hide box in the tub and does the snake ever use it? I use small tubs temporarily house animals when cage cleaning and in an empty tub, 90% of the time the snake will crawl up under the lip of the lid. Try to offer some other choices in the tub for hiding. A couple sheets of craft paper or newsprint rumpled into a makeshift hide works very well and can be changed easily when soiled. Even when I offer what I think is the best choice for a hide, I often find animals hid under the paper. Not sure why, but getting the animal down off the top of the tub will make it easier to deal with him when opening it. Be confident in your ability to deal with a ill tempered animal and don't avoid handling it..it will come around.

Matt

sharthun · 05-14-14, 08:01 AM

Good point!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

I'm not sure the question that CosmicOwl asked actually has anything to do with prey size or the feeding response. I have one young Honduran Milk Snake that is still housed in a tub while I await his permanent cage to be delivered. He constantly crawls to the top of a tub and lays along the ridge by the handle on the tub. I think he does this because he feels hidden and more secure and I believe he's looking for a way to escape. I have the same problem with them when I open the tub. He's as quick as a cat and I have to be VERY careful that he doesn't get away from me when I open the tub. This problem will go away when I get him in his permanent cage. For Cosmic Owl, I think the problem will go away either when he changes the cage to a front opening cage or his snake grows too large to hide up near the top. Just my 2 cents worth.

CosmicOwl · 05-14-14, 06:05 PM

I'm not trying to confuse anybody here, but the snake isn't hanging on the inside of the lid. First of all, that's physically impossible with the type of tub I have. What's going on is that she will be hiding, and by the time I've undone all of the latches on the tub, she will be perched at the top of the tub waiting to strike/possibly escape. My worry is that she will managed to surge out of the tub and either get hurt, or manage to somehow escape before I can recover her. If she was larger, I wouldn't be worried, because even an adult corn snake is too big to escape your grasp. A 9 month of corn snake is just too small and wriggly to be 100% sure you can grab/keep in your hands.

As for feeding, I just don't see how an adult mouse would be possible for her to consume. I feed adult mice to my adult corn snake and they still produce a lump in his body. Maybe if you consider a large hopper to be an "adult mouse", but even that would be a good size meal for her.