Feed Guide for Newbies (Rats v Mice) - Page 4

jarich · 05-10-13, 06:17 PM

If that were happening smy, and I'm neither refuting or substantiating that, then I would assume its simply that, yes. So far as I'm aware there has not been any controlled study done on this, which would compensate for the other variables aside from nutritive quality. Would live to see one though.

KORBIN5895 · 05-18-13, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I'm not reading all of the arguing, its too much text for me. I did read this one though, so I thought I'd ask. The boost in growth from feeding rats that people see, is that just due to them tending to feed a larger rat than they would if they were feeding a mouse?

I have a theory on this. When you feed a larger meal to a snake it causes several organ to enlarge and is considers good for the snake. I think the growth could be directly related to all of those enlarged organs. It is just what I think though.

Reptile_Reptile · 05-18-13, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

I have a theory on this. When you feed a larger meal to a snake it causes several organ to enlarge and is considers good for the snake. I think the growth could be directly related to all of those enlarged organs. It is just what I think though.

interesting opinion

KORBIN5895 · 05-10-13, 06:51 PM

A 40g rat is no where near a sub adult size. Where the heck is this info coming from? A 40g rat would be a weaned rat. You know just off the mothers milk....

Now your average adult mouse is 30ish grams. A 40g mouse is usually considered a an older breeder and they are usually quite fatty and have fully developed bones. A 40g rat is still young and growing fast so I can't see how it would have all that much fat and its bones would still be developing.

Chris72 · 05-10-13, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

A 40g rat is no where near a sub adult size. Where the heck is this info coming from? A 40g rat would be a weaned rat. You know just off the mothers milk....

Now your average adult mouse is 30ish grams. A 40g mouse is usually considered a an older breeder and they are usually quite fatty and have fully developed bones. A 40g rat is still young and growing fast so I can't see how it would have all that much fat and its bones would still be developing.

The cat's used where based how the rodent pro breakdown available. I belive the cat that matched the adult mouse was the rat category of "Jeuvenille". Those are the numbers used because the wieght ranges did overlap. Just to be sure we are clear and not getting hung on semantics. (SubAdult v Jeuvenille)

Listed on RodentPro is:
Adult Mouse - Adult or > 10g (greater than 10g....so 10 to 40)
Juv. Rat- 10g to 50g
(Seems like a fair match up. No?)

KORBIN5895 · 05-10-13, 07:10 PM

Also there is no way a 500g rat is the same nutritionally as a 55g rat. It just can't be. So there is a major flaw right there.

smy_749 · 05-10-13, 07:12 PM

Maybe the issue here is rodentpro's statistics, not so much chris :P

Terranaut · 05-10-13, 09:06 PM

Well I would rather buy 1 500g rat than 10 50g mice. The price is 60% less ...well here anyway.

NextMorph · 05-11-13, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Well I would rather buy 1 500g rat than 10 50g mice. The price is 60% less ...well here anyway.

I agree.

Also, perhaps some more resources would be needed to make this a scientific paper :P ... but I think the OP is trying to make a fair statement...

Based off nothing but personal experience and talking with a large number or breeders and keepers, we have found snakes that eat rats to grow significantly faster than those feeding on mice. However.. part of this is certainly that many snakes won't take a large number of prey items... so often times the mouse eater will eat 2 mice then stop... which is not equivalent to a medium rat.

Also... this is really more important from a breeding standpoint where you're growing your animals up with time as a factor. In the wild snakes certainly don't have consistent, scheduled feedings and their prey items vary. Therefore, I would say that feeding your snake mice isn't harming it per se. It just most likely won't grow as quickly... and could get expensive as an adult, depending on the species.

Overall, I liked this post. And.. it generated a conversation about it, which is always good for learning.

Reptile_Reptile · 05-17-13, 07:03 AM

the last 3 pages of this thread need to be deleted and the poor poster who got ignored in favor of the fight should be answered knowledgeably

KORBIN5895 · 05-17-13, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptile_Reptile

the last 3 pages of this thread need to be deleted and the poor poster who 2 dorle. le t ignored in favor of the fight should be answered knowledgeably

AA

Then answer them and stop whining.

It would have been a discussion but one of them sat in the corner and got all defensive. So you can't really classify it as a fight.

I would like this question answered; is there more fat on a 450g adult rat than a 50g "adult" rat? Is there more fat in three 50g mice or one 150g rat? If so wouldn't that make all of the numbers a bit skewed?

It's nice to come on here and claim to have done all of this research and have all of these facts to back up your assumption but you better make sure you facts are complete.

If you can't see how incomplete the data really is then I am truly sorry to hear that but you have no business taking part in this debate..... or lack thereof.

Reptile_Reptile · 05-17-13, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

AA

Then answer them and stop whining.

It would have been a discussion but one of them sat in the corner and got all defensive. So you can't really classify it as a fight.

I would like this question answered; is there more fat on a 450g adult rat than a 50g "adult" rat? Is there more fat in three 50g mice or one 150g rat? If so wouldn't that make all of the numbers a bit skewed?

It's nice to come on here and claim to have done all of this research and have all of these facts to back up your assumption but you better make sure you facts are complete.

If you can't see how incomplete the data really is then I am truly sorry to hear that but you have no business taking part in this debate..... or lack thereof.

nobody was whining i simply didnt have the knowledge to help them. can you please link me to sites that support your claim of incomplete data? or maybe refer me to a book? how about make a similar post but from your theory's perspective? i would love to read.

jarich · 05-17-13, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptile_Reptile

nobody was whining i simply didnt have the knowledge to help them. can you please link me to sites that support your claim of incomplete data? or maybe refer me to a book? how about make a similar post but from your theory's perspective? i would love to read.

I would have to question that you actually read through the entire thread then. The OP was not looking for help, there was no question asked; he was instead presenting a hypothesis based on some research that he had done. It was a good starting point, but some of his assessments were flawed because he didnt delve deeper into the topic. I did present evidence and show some of the flaws, but it was largely ignored, which is what you seem to be doing too.

Its a shame, because I think the OP did a good job starting to research the topic. However, it seems like he was unwilling to consider that perhaps he might have been wrong and that a little more research might yield further understanding. Nutrition is a complex topic, and isnt going to be fully understood in a week of cruising websites.

I made a similar mistake when I first started on the forums. I was dead set against feeding mice to savannah monitors ever, and this after only having done some limited research on the topic. Someone called me on it and quite appropriately showed me the limitations of my research. I will admit, it pissed me off at first too, but then led me to research it further so that wouldnt happen again. That guy that handed me my hat is a member here now and I respect his knowledge greatly, though we still disagree from time to time. That argument is probably the only reason Im able to tell you that the initial post here is incorrect though. Kind of cycle of knowledge I suppose.

In my opinion, the exchange and discourse of ideas is a great thing, and should not be taken personally when there is disagreement. We can go back and forth here without hating each other at the end or feeling personally slighted. I hope anyway. Experience is a nasty teacher sometimes, and often misunderstood. So the ability to run ideas like this by each other can be so helpful. Learning from others means we dont have to experience everything ourselves, and can save some heartache as a result.

Reptile_Reptile · 05-18-13, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

I would have to question that you actually read through the entire thread then. The OP was not looking for help, there was no question asked; he was instead presenting a hypothesis based on some research that he had done.

no i was referring to the totally over read post on the top of page 4 quoted below

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I'm not reading all of the arguing, its too much text for me. I did read this one though, so I thought I'd ask. The boost in growth from feeding rats that people see, is that just due to them tending to feed a larger rat than they would if they were feeding a mouse?

Reptile_Reptile · 05-18-13, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

It was a good starting point, but some of his assessments were flawed because he didnt delve deeper into the topic. I did present evidence and show some of the flaws, but it was largely ignored, which is what you seem to be doing too.

also i ignored nothing i read every post. i would ask you to clarify what i exactly did; i have really not said much on this thread mostly responding and clarifying things that you guys really weren't getting off my original post.