monitor has gas? - Page 5

infernalis · 02-14-13, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Honest question. Would their body really cool down and have adverse affects that quick? If so what do they do in the wild when temps drop for a couple of days?

That is also a very good question, as I have often seen mine eat and then drop down into the burrows, AKA the coolest part of the cage.

jarich · 02-14-13, 11:55 PM

There is actually an equation to show how long it takes them to lose their heat. Its much longer than it takes them to gain it. They are able to manipulate it through various capillary action and shunting. Funny thing is that they go into their burrows to conserve heat.

KORBIN5895 · 02-15-13, 12:17 AM

Random thought. Could they go into the burrow because the cool air causes their skin to contract which would give them less surface are from which they could lose heat? I know a lot of thick skinned animals ( like cows) don't lose a lot of heat through their skin because of the thickness where as humans our skin is so thick it is terrible for heat retention.

Pirarucu · 02-15-13, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Sorry, I thought you`d only just got it and it was very young.
You can still feed daily, but make it smaller ammounts, it`s about offering energy comparable to the ammount they use (if he looks heavy cut down, it`s that easy)!

Please try and get a few photos asap, actually seeing how he is now would be helpful.

It's not a fat animal. Here is an older thread, and I believe in this one he had just been fed to satiation, hence the hanging stomach.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varan...am-filthy.html

murrindindi · 02-15-13, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Random thought. Could they go into the burrow because the cool air causes their skin to contract which would give them less surface are from which they could lose heat? I know a lot of thick skinned animals ( like cows) don't lose a lot of heat through their skin because of the thickness where as humans our skin is so thick it is terrible for heat retention.

Hi, like some snakes they may seek shelter after consuming a relatively large meal because whilst digesting it they may be less active and prone to predation and other factors. Their metabolism is obviously raised during digestion.

Pirarucu: Thanks for the link!

murrindindi · 02-15-13, 11:02 AM

Different species of Varanid have differing rates of heating/cooling, and not forgetting of course that body mass plays a large part, too.

MDT · 02-15-13, 11:02 AM

i'm gonna throw this out there....flatus (farts/toots/poots/air biscuits) is normal. I have zero idea how much flatus is normal for a monitor, but in humans, if you don't fart, your intestines aren't moving (for lack of a better word). They stop moving and you get a tube down your nose to decompress your bowel for about 3 days.....bacteria in your gut will produce gas (as Wayne said) at different levels with different foods (like the suggestion of eggs, or think campfire scene in Blazing Saddles)....your dog farts, your kids fart, and you fart, so...i'd wager reptiles do to. I do know that when my retic would crawl through my hands, i could feel air moving in through the intestines and it would "gurgle" a bit. If the monitor isn't showing any ill signs and is maintaining weight, eating and producing normal stools....it may not be a big deal.

KORBIN5895 · 02-15-13, 12:23 PM

First off I pooted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, like some snakes they may seek shelter after consuming a relatively large meal because whilst digesting it they may be less active and prone to predation and other factors. Their metabolism is obviously raised during digestion.

Pirarucu: Thanks for the link!

Now I totally get what you mean about them finding a secure place to digest a bit but my thought was in reference to Josh's comments about then going in a burrow to conserve heat. Any thoughts on that?

murrindindi · 02-15-13, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

First off I pooted.

Now I totally get what you mean about them finding a secure place to digest a bit but my thought was in reference to Josh's comments about then going in a burrow to conserve heat. Any thoughts on that?

Hi, yes of course retreating to burrows does help conserve heat, especially during the night and in cooler times.
When Joshua mentions the difference in heating/cooling rates, that ammounts to just a very few minutes, not hours and hours (I`m not sure if he meant that had something to do with digestion)?
You asked earlier whether the OP`s monitor would have problems digesting if the temps were lowered for a short time, the answer is possibly yes, especially if digestion hadn`t yet started when the body cooled down. I`m not sure if the temps were somewhat lower for any length of time (days rather than a few hours)?
I did notice the OP mentioning flooding in the burrows.

MDT · 02-15-13, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

First off I pooted.

and you feel better for it, don't you?

infernalis · 02-15-13, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

I did notice the OP mentioning flooding in the burrows.

Correct, the rather substantial water dish got tipped over, sloshing a large amount onto the substrate.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varan...ater-help.html - Quick Link.
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KORBIN5895 · 02-15-13, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, yes of course retreating to burrows does help conserve heat, especially during the night and in cooler times.
When Joshua mentions the difference in heating/cooling rates, that ammounts to just a very few minutes, not hours and hours (I`m not sure if he meant that had something to do with digestion)?
You asked earlier whether the OP`s monitor would have problems digesting if the temps were lowered for a short time, the answer is possibly yes, especially if digestion hadn`t yet started when the body cooled down. I`m not sure if the temps were somewhat lower for any length of time (days rather than a few hours)?
I did notice the OP mentioning flooding in the burrows.

Okay! I get that. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

crocdoc · 02-15-13, 06:12 PM

I'm going to add my two cents worth. I've skimmed over many of the replies here, so I apologise if I repeat anything anyone else has said.

In my experience with my lace monitors, there are two circumstances under which they will bloat after a meal (despite having very hot basking spots).

1. The first circumstance is a new food item. One of the posters mentioned gut bacteria and I agree with them that may be at least part of the issue. Although monitors are capable of digesting all sorts of things, there is a bit of gut 'training' involved. For example, wild lace monitors can eat the most rancid of road-killed carrion, but if someone tried to feed that same rotting flesh to a captive that had never been exposed to it before, they'd bloat to the point that they'd have to regurgitate it. After a couple of exposures they develop the right gut flora to deal with it and are better able to cope.

2. The second circumstance is food items with a thick skin or exoskeleton. Occasionally I'll get old, ex-breeder rats and feed them to my adult male lace monitor. The first time I did this he bloated up a fair bit and I realised that it took a while for his digestive juices to cut through the skin of the rat (if any of you have tried to dissect a 800-900 gram rat, you'll know how thick their skin is) and in the interim the rat started to rot. It was also a new food item the first time I tried this, so the lace monitor got the double-whammy of thick skinned prey and unfamiliar item for his digestive tract. After that I got into the practice of cutting slices into the skin of dead rats, particularly into the gut cavity of the rat, so that the monitor's digestive juices can go straight in. The bloating stopped.

In the OP's situation, the questions I'd ask would be: are any of the items new prey items? Squid is soft bodied and would probably only be an issue if it were new. Crayfish have an indigestible exoskeleton, so it may take a while for the monitor's digestive juices to cut through to the digestible bits inside. The rats' skin may be a barrier for the monitor.

Try killing the crayfish and cutting them up, or cutting slices into the rats and see if that makes a difference. Even small rats have much thicker skin than mice of a similar size.

concinnusman · 02-15-13, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Different species of Varanid have differing rates of heating/cooling, and not forgetting of course that body mass plays a large part, too.

Surface-to-volume ratio is basically all that matters here but maybe that's what you meant by "body mass".

jarich · 02-15-13, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

Crayfish have an indigestible exoskeleton, so it may take a while for the monitor's digestive juices to cut through to the digestible bits inside.

Sorry Dave, I have to disagree with you on just that one point. They digest the exoskeleton quite readily.

Also, concinnus, simple surface to volume is not the only thing that matters with varanids. There are very many factors that play into the rate at which varanids cool, even within the same species. For instance, microhabitat is one of those things, as is hunting strategy. They have active control over their cooling, its not just passive decay.