CBOI are we not a community????

Leona · 02-02-03, 02:58 AM

As part of sSnakeSs.com community are we not here for the betterment of our reptiles, each other and ourselves?
I was reading the post from tHe GiNo --Why was my post deleted? I never got a chance to read it the original post before it was deleted. My question is since sSnakeSs no longer has the CBOI where do we go to inquire about a person/business? If you had a bad dealing with a person/business would it not be the thing to do to let other people in the herp community know what happened to you? This way you give the "heads up" to your fellow herpers if they choose to do business with that person. I think having the CBOI just might keep people a little more honest and up front when doing business. If the person/business feels he/they did nothing-wrong then he/they can reply and give their side of the story, because we all know there are two sides to every story. Just the same if someone is honest and up front it should also be told. Again as part of this herping community I think we should be there for each other as friends are. Another thing if a post starts an argument so be it, just like T.V. if you don't like the show change the channel (if you don't like the topic don't read the post.) I've notice since there is no CBOI there has been a lot of new unknown dealers coming on board. Is it a question of legality that you no longer have CBOI? How can sSnakeSs get into any legal trouble when someone states their opinion and signs their name to the statement?
I hope you take this post into consideration and start the CBOI again so we as a community can share the good with the bad.
Leona
P.S. I hope this doesn't get deleted before a few opinions are heard.

vincenzo · 02-02-03, 03:06 AM

i agree . ordering online makes me nervous to start with but if there is a background on someone then it would make me more comfortable ordering from them. just my two cents

marisa · 02-02-03, 03:30 AM

Someone posted this idea somewhere but I can't remember who or where....

Having to do with a BOI people say that not only can sites be liable but one jerk customer could ruin a small business because someone posted on a BOI. But instead of taking away the chance for the real "bad guys" to be brough to light, the person suggested breeders start using a "Recommdations" list of customers who will give an review to those seeking one at their site. This way even if one erk posts something about them on a BOI, people can come and see the breeders side of the story/operation as well.

Just thought it was a cool idea.
Marisa

jason h · 02-02-03, 08:35 AM

when the cboi was here jeff had been contacted by many lawyers threatening to sue because someone got slandered here, jeff runs this site at like 250 usd per month with very little outside funds and really cant afford lawyers fees court costs etc. on top of that,plus many of the posts that go on there end up being pulled off because it turns into a fight with ppl swearing and flaming each other, yea this site is for the betterment of the comunity but in a positive way we dont like to see the members start an all out war because someone got a skinny bp from joe blow because those type of arguements not only stay in the boi but tend to bleed out into the other forums where we try are hardest to keep it friendly and fun for everyone,thus the post furtherdown about NO Negative posts and no slandering and i believe GiNos post bordered on slanderis so that is why it was removed,I hope everyone understands this rambling and we can all move on to enjoy the forums we have and not worry about the ones we dont there are many boi sites out there if you need to make an inquiry that hve the funds to pay the legal costs.
so injoy, be happy ,have fun!!!!!

sSNAKESs.com · 02-02-03, 09:38 AM

Thank you Jay! I have went over this many times and the above post explained it perfectly. Our server bill is $250USD and this site has only made more then 250USD 3 months of 12 it has been opened. I am paying for this site out of my pocket each and every month, and with next to no money coming in I cant and am not willing to pay for lawyers fees or deal with the headaches to top it all off. If and when the site actually brings in enough money where i could cover these costs then i would have no problem reinstating the CBOI. Some people may think that i am making money off of the site, because queensnake makes ALOT of money, but i am not charging for anything, and there are next to no donations and rarely does someone ever sign up for photo hosting. We have a few banner customers but those were yearly subscriptions and that money is long spent on server bills not to mention the hundreds of USD spent on the software that is run on the site. I am not complaining i am just saying if you guys want "your" community to progress then i suggest you start buying photo hositng or making donations because this community of 1400 members doesnt even give back enough to pay for the server bills. Its really at the point where if we dont get support from the community members then ssnakess.com will have no choice but to start charging for classifieds etc, the more member who join the more bandwidth / space is used and then our server will have to upgraded yet again. I started the site on a $29.99USD hosting account and over the last year i have had to upgrade to a dedicated unix box, which is costing me $250USD a month to keep speeds up and for you guys to enjoy the community. Maybe its time for the community to give back. I dont like posting messages like this but i have went over this numorous times and i have seen in teh chat people talking about how much money the site must be making. But the reality of it is, what the site is creating is debt, and it really hurts to see people saying that i am getting rich of of it when the truth of it is, its taking a loss.

Linds · 02-02-03, 10:15 AM

There is a fine line between slander and libel. tHe GiNo's post initial thread didn't state any facts, but all sorts of heresay - saying you heard someone is a bad person in general, and bad in business, is considered slander. He said she said is not factual evidence, it is gossip/rumour. It is fine to post an inquiry about someone, just please be careful. I mean, if you are looking for info on a Canadian breeder/business you can't really go to the BOI looking for answers, but when writing posts take into consideration the sSnakeSs.com and any legality issues

Jeff works very hard to keep up happy, we don't want to cause him any headaches

sSNAKESs.com · 02-02-03, 10:18 AM

If you would like to make a donation, you can paypal it to the site at support@ssnakess.com , If 250 of our 1400 members gave 1$ a month then we wouldnt have to pay for the server fees and the community would pay for itself, 5$ every 6 months or whatever you can afford to spare. For something you spend hours on each day, is 1$ a month really to hard to afford to give???? I have bitten my tongue for to long, so there it is, its all layed out on the line for everyone to see. the $50USD that comes in average buy the community a $200USD debt, which really doesnt get the community anything, not to mention the 300$ canadian i just shelled out to make up the differance. LOL If you want to help "your" community, give $1.00 a month, it seems small but it will actually go a long way.

Paypal: support@ssnakess.com

If you would like to donate in another way, just PM me.

Snakey Acres · 02-02-03, 11:51 AM

I've never used paypal how do we use it.I'm fairly new to this site but woulden't mind supporting it.I'd hate to see it go the way of so many other sites so that only larger breeders can afford to post classifieds ect.

tHeGiNo · 02-02-03, 12:03 PM

Quote:

There is a fine line between slander and libel. tHe GiNo's post initial thread didn't state any facts, but all sorts of heresay - saying you heard someone is a bad person in general, and bad in business, is considered slander. He said she said is not factual evidence, it is gossip/rumour. It is fine to post an inquiry about someone, just please be careful. I mean, if you are looking for info on a Canadian breeder/business you can't really go to the BOI looking for answers, but when writing posts take into consideration the sSnakeSs.com and any legality issues Jeff works very hard to keep up happy, we don't want to cause him any headaches

My lord lol I had no idea so many people would take this negatively. I posted what others had said so that people can contradict what others had said and say NOT ONLY IS HE A REPUTABLE BREEDER, BUT WOW YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE CONDITION THE ANIMAL WAS IN. You know what I mean? And again, if someone screws someone over, I think that person has the right to tell the whole world don't you think! I just thought I could find out some damn information before I go pay 1200 dollars. Also I had no clue about the lawsuit that had almost occurred but again I think that is bullcrap. As long as the statements are true I do not see why you can't say it. Howver I now know the consequences of doing so and I apologize so please get off my throat. Sheesh....

tHeGiNo · 02-02-03, 12:06 PM

Also there is one more thing I have to say, everything the first poster said:

Quote:

I was reading the post from tHe GiNo --Why was my post deleted? I never got a chance to read it the original post before it was deleted. My question is since sSnakeSs no longer has the CBOI where do we go to inquire about a person/business? If you had a bad dealing with a person/business would it not be the thing to do to let other people in the herp community know what happened to you? This way you give the "heads up" to your fellow herpers if they choose to do business with that person. I think having the CBOI just might keep people a little more honest and up front when doing business. If the person/business feels he/they did nothing-wrong then he/they can reply and give their side of the story, because we all know there are two sides to every story. Just the same if someone is honest and up front it should also be told. Again as part of this herping community I think we should be there for each other as friends are. Another thing if a post starts an argument so be it, just like T.V. if you don't like the show change the channel (if you don't like the topic don't read the post.) I've notice since there is no CBOI there has been a lot of new unknown dealers coming on board. Is it a question of legality that you no longer have CBOI? How can sSnakeSs get into any legal trouble when someone states their opinion and signs their name to the statement?

Well freakin said....I also want to add that if an individual conducts himself/herself in bad business practices, then he/she deserves what comes to them: [B]A BAD REP[B/]. We are in a world of opinions and I think we have the right to state them. What ever happened to freedom of speech?

Shane Tesser · 02-02-03, 12:45 PM

Snakey Acres...Thank you first off, i believe you would just have to go to www.paypal.com and open an account, it is free to do so. Its members like you that will help keep us going, and keep this site free.

First off, i would like to thank all the people that have given, i think that got a little bit left out, there has been members who have, you know who you are, and we really appreciate your efforts.

As for the cboi, yes, the fact that we provide the medium for you to "inquire" or as Linds put, create "heresay" for, or about someone makes the site directly liable, and can be named in a lawsuit, welcome to reality, that is how it works.

Related to that...i was just wondering where ppl would think legal representation costs would come from to defend the site as is? I can tell you where...one legal matter, say goodbye to the site. If you still think this is undesirable, please contact me yourself, i would be more than happy to have our site lawyers contact you to draw up documentations to have the cboi re-opened and put directly in your name. Then you can have the lawyers call you, you can give statements, you can hear the threats, and you can police the threads for yourself

Jeff has mentioned that the cost for the server outcosts the price of actual credits we get each month, but that is only the tip of the iceburg. I would like to give somemore if i could

To date, from protecting his own site, protecting members, the jealousy of others etc..jeff has been given virus's that have completely wiped out his hard drive. The cost varies virus to virus, sometimes its only one or two programs, other times it has been the entire hard drive, either way, it is very costly. I think ppl forget about the man hours in total. A site like this takes Jeff two-three hours a day...thats on top of his full time job. And that time, is only time to work on the site, upgrades etc. Now factor in, the fifty plus emails he gets. Emails he doesnt need to have, ie..how do you post a picture (when the answers are in the forum), and anyone who ever has sent one of those mails knows that Jeff responds....that takes up more of his time. So factor in your daily routine, and see if you could afford that many hours programming? The shows, we get there...we have a booth, we meet and greet our community with plans to take the show further on the road to meet more members...plus we always strive to give something to members when we see them, again where does that cost come from....i can tell you as i have paid for members gifts several times myself. We would like to hit the u.s. shows, more Canadian shows, Calgary, Ottawa, etc, again..those trips come out of our pockets. When we take the pictures of the shows and edit them, the ones that everyone loves, it takes roughly six hours for me to do so, but i do it cause i know ppl love it...that is labour that i only have to do once every three months, i cant imagine doing that every couple of days as jeff does.

Recently i put a post up about what to do with our first anniversary, and within a couple of weeks i had to put it down, why...because to be honest all i saw was post about prizes we should give, parties we should throw, and generally, give, give, give, i hope everyone can understand now why none of this will happen. I have tried....tried to get t-shirts made, jackets, hats...ANYTHING!!!, but guess what...we cannot afford it.

Many ppl now are starting to take advantage of the on-line store...again...look at the cheap prices...this should show you that this is to support the community, not to become rich...so are we so bad in doing so?

To top it off, we have done more recent upgrades..ie..a new chat server that can handle the amount of ppl that now enjoy it....yes the server is free..but there is still a time factor involved in doing the change over..and i can tell you, it has gone incredibly smooth. Not to mention the amount of hours that myself, Trace, Daan, Matt, and Jeff put into that chat to make sure everyone is comfortable, not bothered by outside ppl, and given a pleasurable experience there in general.

I am going to leave this thread as is..i will leave a couple of key thoughts before i do so...they are: How many other sites have this many Free perks, how many others upgrade as ofthen, how many others have such a user friendly site, how many others give such an incredible chat room...that has actual ppl using it. How many others have the actual webmaster go to the shows to greet ppl, how many will let you talk to the webmaster directly about concerns, and to top it all off....in reality, how many others would give out over $400 canadian a month for ppl who they really dont know outside of the site, to have a place to go to each and everyday, and be actively apart of his own site everyday. I think it may be time to give back....please remember that next time you buy a cup of coffee for 1.25, remember what a dollar could do for your community..while he can still afford to have it! Shane.

marisa · 02-02-03, 12:56 PM

Out of curiosity, my boyfriend works in the computer industry....with exact the situation you have here, servers.

About the viruses....I don't understand why you guys are having even one problem with them? If its a virus on the server your website is hosted on then there is nothing Jeff can personally do unless he is serve admin,,,,,,(if its a microsoft server) but the server admin should be able to 100% keep the server free of any virus and if he can't he doesn't know enough about being a server admin....(no offense)

If he is getting these viruses at him home computer than isn't Norton taking care of them ? There are a couple of virus's that will disable a anti-virus program (Klez and Circam and a couple others) but those can be taken care of by downloading a simple removal tool......usually at symantec.com They are virus specific.

Sorry but my boyfriend was just curious as to why he should ever get a virus on a server...because as he takes care of servers, he totally locks his down and has never had a virus. ????

My boyfriend says if you guys have further trouble with the servers getting viruses he will be more than happy to help as he does work with a *very* well known internet company here in Ontario as a Network Service specialist.

Marisa
P.S. If you guys would be interested in running a LInux or Unix server, you would have less problems. And these programs are free.

marisa · 02-02-03, 01:11 PM

If this is running on a microsoft operating system with IIS then the suggestion of a Unix/Linux system with apache would clear up your problems, and best of all free to do.

Marisa

beth wallbank · 02-02-03, 01:16 PM

I am not one to butt into things by nature but now I will....This is Canada, not UK or USA. Jeff has done something special here, for US, the herpers in Canada and surrounding countries. Jeff pulled the BOI for financial reasons, due to legal reasons. I think that each and everyone of US would have done the same thing.
Honestly people, there is no need for a BOI, not for the small amount of herpers there are in this country. Heck, by word of mouth alone is enough to know the good, the bad, and the ugly on each and every one of us. I have heard enough 'hear say' without the BOI to know who is doing what, and the size of underwear to buy. This community of people is quite close knit, and it seems that if there is a bad apple on the tree, everyone is already aware of it. We all know who to be aware of, and who to go to for what. And if we don't, we know who to go to that will. The BOI when it was on this site, was nothing more than a kleenex box in action. People were posting garbage to vent for the silliest of things, nothing pertaining to reptiles on most occasions. People were crying the blues for someone not selling snakes to them, or the lizard was missing a scale. Come off it people. Jeff is not a babysitter, nor should he have to pay the daycare fees. The breeders that are out to screw someone, are already burning thier candles at both ends, and we are all aware of these breeders. Those who are reputable and have something good going for them, have enough people posting pictures and ideas on here to benefit all of us, and to me, this is better than hear say anyday. Seeing the 'facts' and how pleased people have been with thier purchases is advertising in itself.
I am sorry if this has angered some of you, but come off it. We are all adults, and this is not a play ground. People with the 'bad reps' have done this to themselves 'without' the help of a BOI.
As for Jeff and the moderators that monitor this site, thank you for creating this site, as it has sprouted into somewhere positive to visit, and with the number of new visitors, the numbers speak for themselves. You are doing a fine job, and keep up the good work.

tHeGiNo · 02-02-03, 01:18 PM

Ok before I say anything, let me make sure all of you understand this, read carefully now: EVERYTHING I AM ABOUT TO SAY IS NOT DIRECTED AT SSNAKESS, IT IS DIRECTED AT THE LAWS Make sure your understand that before going on. Alright, so you said the following:

Quote:

As for the cboi, yes, the fact that we provide the medium for you to "inquire" or as Linds put, create "heresay" for, or about someone makes the site directly liable, and can be named in a lawsuit, welcome to reality, that is how it works.

Alright, so in saying this, your telling me that (this is a fictional character) Bob Doodlehopper can sue the City of Toronto because they gave me the medium to tell someone at the bus stop that Bob Doodlehopper keeps his animals in poor conditions? Or on smaller notes: I am at Tim Hortons, and I am sitting with a friend. I tell him that Bob Doodlehopper conducts himself in bad business practices. Bob Doodlehopper can now sue Tim Hortons for giving me the medium to say that. Or, and finally, I am now at a friends house. I tell her that Bob Doodlehopper is known to screw people over, and that she shouldn't refer to him for snakes. Now Bob Doodlehopper can sue my friend because she gave me the means to say that? Now reading what I said, I know what at least one of you will say. Posting it here is saying it to many people. So now let me provide you with one more example. I spray paint on the side of a huge building the following: BOB DOODLEHOPPER TREATS HIS ANIMALS POORLY, AND MAKES A BUSINESS OUT OF SCREWING PEOPLE OVER. Bob Doodlehopper can now suethe city of Toronto for posting that? That is a crock of BS. Now before any of you post a reply make sure you read this, AGAIN: THIS WAS DIRECTED AT THE LAWS AND NOT SSNAKESS.

Now, I would be more then happy to donate five bucks a month, PM me with more info. As for working on the site, three hours a day. Well I am a webdesigner and would be more then happy then to assist you wherever possible. As for editing the hundreds of pictures of the show, I can do that too! If you every need my help let me know. So that can take a burden off your load, now what? Take this into consideration, and thank you for your time.