Wild life or pets?

marionsclan · 07-08-11, 12:03 AM

So something someone had said in one of the forums made me think about the 'pet' status of reptiles. Most people seem to agree that they only should be handled a few times a week, at the most or if at all. And that's where my thought process begins.

I own animals for companionship and they are therefore my pets. I Like to hold them, interact with them, and make sure they are happy. If I cannot hold them or interact with them (Fish are different, obviously) then I prefer them to be and stay in their natural habitat instead of some plastic bucket.

Now I know that some of you think that snakes should be observed rather than being handled and watching them out in their own environment would be the best place for that because they act naturally. But having snakes confined, even when trying to replicate their natural environment, will stunt some of their natural instincts and they won't behave like they would out in the wild.

So why keep them and not handle them instead of making them your pet? You already chose to take them in from the wild which automatically means that the snake needs to adjust to an 'artificial' environment and will behave differently. And because they already have to adjust why not help them become a pet that can be handled w/out stressing over it?

Again, I'm looking for input, personal opinions, etc., but no flaming. Thanks!

NennaMeerkat · 07-08-11, 12:17 AM

I handle my lizards several times a week. My leopards get a little attention every other night when I feed them crickets. KyJinn (bearded dragon) often comes out with me when I actually go buy the crickets sitting on my shoulder and enjoying the ride and attention.

Now as for my snake I would love to bring her out more often, in fact when I owned two corn snakes they were often out daily! They were far more active and loved to be out and about for hours in areas I made safe for them. My hognose girl however is pretty shy and stresses easily right now. So I only take her out when I notice her already active and "climbing" the side of her tank (which is rarely since she often hides). I think that as she gets older and bigger she will gain more confidence and I will take her out more often.

Honestly you have to do what feels right for the snake. I am sure plenty of us didn't buy a snake just to sit in a tank BUT owning an animal means to make it feel as comfortable as possible and if, for that individual snake, that means little handling so it will eat...then so be it. May not be what we wanted but it is what we got.

KD35WIN.AS.ONE · 07-08-11, 12:17 AM

I dont handle snakes, not anymore especially. Only to properly maintain them is when id handle. I do get some satisfaction from it im not going to lie but i can see there stress alot of the times. Ive always had the same thought process on this matter, IMO: people are going to do what they want 9 times out of 10. To an individual owner if they want to handle there snakes they will because its there's, they own it, they paid money for it. I dont personally have a problem with people handling there snakes, because of the key phrase "there snakes".. Out of respect for the animal i dont handle them because they really just dont enjoy it haha.

"But having snakes confined, even when trying to replicate their natural environment, will stunt some of their natural instincts and they won't behave like they would out in the wild."

^^ I dont understand the logic in that (no offense please) because most snakes ive owned havent seen "the wild" all they know is there cage. But there cage is most suitable to there needs as long as it stays clean and controlled. I dont see how letting a snake hang out on the bed, in an uncontrolled environment is going to help. (in regards to handling) And if the owner is so concerned about the snake being in the wild he/she probably shouldn't own one. I know thats not the case for you because you said you seek companionship in them. Which IMO cant happen on there part.

Good post though its good to see people's opinion's on matters like these.

marionsclan · 07-08-11, 12:29 AM

Well, I have read posts where the owners describe their snake as social and enjoying being held, so I'm thinking that non-wild species can be tamed because they never experienced how a wild snake is suppose to act. There are exceptions of course, but I'm thinking that the more snakes are being bred instead of caught from the wild, we will eventually have domesticated snakes, at least to some extend. What do you think?

KD35WIN.AS.ONE · 07-08-11, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marionsclan

Well, I have read posts where the owners describe their snake as social and enjoying being held, so I'm thinking that non-wild species can be tamed because they never experienced how a wild snake is suppose to act. There are exceptions of course, but I'm thinking that the more snakes are being bred instead of caught from the wild, we will eventually have domesticated snakes, at least to some extend. What do you think?

I dont really see a snake gaining enjoyment from anything, other than food.. Even for such a simple emotion as "enjoyment", theres such a complex string of intellect a animal must have to experience this on the level we are speaking of. I being a human, wouldn't gain enjoyment from another animal lifting me up and moving me around, restricting my movement, and i have reasoning skills, imagine what something without them feels... And as for the question in your last sentence, No.. There is no taming a CB 12" long King Cobra that knows hes a monster...

TeaNinja · 07-08-11, 12:50 AM

i've been working a lot lately so i handle my pets less, but i feel that handling a few times a week isn't too bad if your animal is acclimated to you. also i hold my big snake alittle less then my little snakes because it's harder to lug him out of his viv.

ilovemypets1988 · 07-08-11, 02:32 AM

personally i handle my snakes on a daily to bi-daily basis, dependant on the snake of course, however, i dont do it for the snakes enjoyment but for my own and for there own benefit, as the only real time that they can truly stretch out is when they are being handled or even just out going about there business in our rooms.

the snakes as a whole has no enjoyment what so ever, they only know survival, this means; eat, rest (when they can - hence hides are required), digestions bi-products and the fight or flight instinct. snakes have no feelings and cant feel or have emotions, if they did, they would probably be to intelligent to actually tame down what so ever.

there are some snakes that i just simply wouldnt touch and would only have as a moving ornament and they are hots (killer hots, not hots that are harmless to us humans) e.g. rattlers and so on, these types of snakes should never be handled without being "knocked out" first (loosely termed i mean).

it also depends on our own abilities to be able to "read" the snake and be able to judge a situation within a given scenario to whether we should handle the snake or any animal in question, if we dont have the necessary skills dont try to do something that you would regret i.e. dont try to handle a fully grown retic or annie by yourself as your asking for trouble.

please remember that 90% of snakes that we own or keep are all captive bred and that they are only used to life within a box (whether it be plastic, glass or wood) and no matter how much we stimulate some of there natural behaviour, we wouldnt get to see all of it as the animals wont know what to do as they are not out of the wild and to try to get them to act naturally as they would in the wild is just going to confuse the animal and do it some harm. captive bred animals are just that, captive bred and captive is how they should be treated, meet there basic needs, e.g. temps, humidity, food, e.t.c. but dont try to put a wild impression on these animals as wild to the normal term, they are not (wild as in, wild acting), they simply dont posses the knowledge to acttruelly wild as that has been bred out of them for our own enjoyment.

thats my true opinion.

Lankyrob · 07-08-11, 03:43 AM

They will always be wild animals and will always be stressed to some extent by being picked up by a potential predator. Some reptiles (lizards particularly) will adapt to being handled and therefore be less stressed out by the interaction but even then over handling them will affect them. None of my reptiles get handled more than once per week and all the snakes are given 7 days to rest after eating and 3 days after shedding (unless there is an obvious problem shed) with no interaction except to spray/change water and spot clean. Just my 0.03c

stephanbakir · 07-08-11, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

They will always be wild animals and will always be stressed to some extent by being picked up by a potential predator. Some reptiles (lizards particularly) will adapt to being handled and therefore be less stressed out by the interaction but even then over handling them will affect them. None of my reptiles get handled more than once per week and all the snakes are given 7 days to rest after eating and 3 days after shedding (unless there is an obvious problem shed) with no interaction except to spray/change water and spot clean. Just my 0.03c

This, and they don't have the brain power to like you, they can tolerate you.
The definition of pet is variable based on the individual, find out what it means to you.
Personally I call them pets, I love my big herps, really do. Been years since I owned my retics and I'm getting fidgety just thinking about them, cant wait!!!

ilovemypets1988 · 07-08-11, 05:28 AM

just to clarify something, when i said there not wild animals as such, i meant in comparisment to there cousins that are out there naturally in there environment, compared to them, our captive bred snakes aint wild but they are wild in the term of they have there own mind and will think for themselves.

stephanbakir · 07-08-11, 05:31 AM

You need to think of their maximum thought potential, they can see a possible escape rout or a rout from point A to point B, but for 99.99% of the things they do, its 100% instinct based.
While some reptiles can be more intelligent, it still boils down to the same thing, they are instinct based.

ilovemypets1988 · 07-08-11, 05:40 AM

yh thats true, which i did say in my first post, but if you capture a wild snake, the risk of being bitten or musked on or even both in most cases are pretty much guaranteed where as our captive bred species are more relaxed with us touching them - to an extent - plus, when you think of most snakes available to buy these days are or rather were bred for there colours (i believe there the morphs but im more than likely wrong with that definition), they still have there basic and primary instincts but they are toned down and less likely to react to certain situations in the same way that an animal out there in there natural habitat.which is also what i meant. its not easy to explain what i meant but i am trying to though lol

Dehlida · 07-08-11, 06:21 AM

First I'd like to say- there is a huge difference between a wild caught snake and a captive bred one. The "natural behaviors" can be thrown out the window when dealing with a captive bred, as there is no option of it living in the wild regardless, not to mention behavior changes through generations.

I'm a firm believer in being as hands off as possible with your reptiles. Dogs for example, love human interaction. We are part of their pack, we are a member of their family. They gain from social interaction because a large portion of their life is based around social interaction. When you look at a reptile; however, you don't see any of this. Snakes in the wild do not interact socially, they prefer not to be seen at all in fact.

Handling snakes is very stressful on them, and goes against their instinctive nature to run and hide and not be seen. Snakes do not enjoy being out to "play" with their owners, and gain absolutely nothing from human interaction.

infernalis · 07-08-11, 06:24 AM

I personally get a great deal of satisfaction observing my snakes through glass in a non invasive fashion.

I have several snakes that simply cannot be picked up at all, My Black Racer is pure evil, but one of my all time favourite captives. ??

youngster · 07-08-11, 07:15 AM

Wayne you have a black racer? A northern black racer? My favorite snake in the local wild. I know what you mean by evil. When I was collecting data from them even though they could run away and hide in a heartbeat they stood their ground and struck a couple times. Pretty nasty bite if you ask me, for northeastern herps at least.