W.C or "captive ranched"

paul_le_snake · 01-02-03, 11:40 PM

anyone got thought on these subjects????
personally i hate ranching as much as wc
cheers
paul

Jeff_Favelle · 01-03-03, 12:19 AM

At least with ranching, they are trying to make an effort. This is my preference:

CB
Captive hatched (ranched)
WC

Keep in mind that I would never go past chioce one. Ha ha.

That is, unless its necessary (Boelen's, new Jungle blood, Ball morph, etc etc).

Edwin · 01-03-03, 07:40 AM

ditto. Same goes for me.

Dom · 01-03-03, 08:33 AM

CB all the way unless the cb is unavailable the ch or wc..

honduranfreekk · 01-03-03, 08:38 AM

I agrea cb all the way in most cases there is so much cb and cbb that there is no need 2 buy wc at all just drives up the demand 4 poching just my 2 cent,s

sSNAKESs.com · 01-03-03, 09:16 AM

Ranching is actually great for the hobby... For example, if you read the last months reptiles magazine, the blood rancher in indonesia who is BREEDING the bloods in indonesia and exporting them can fill the countrys legal export limit by himself, which in return if done properly stop the need for collecting from the wild. Most of the snakes there are collected for their skins and not for the reptile trade at all. I think the ratio was like more then 70% of the annual export allowance was for skins and only 30% was for live animals for the pet trade. So most of the poaching that is being done is done for skins and meat and not to supply the demands for the pet trade. So in my opinion ranching is a great thing for the hobby and the longevity of the soon to be endangered species, if 1 ranch can fill a countrys live export quota by himself, thats 30% more animals that dont get plucked from the wild every year.

honduranfreekk · 01-03-03, 09:25 AM

Hey now jeff I did not look at it that way.Butt now that you putt that out there i would have 2 agrea with you on the ranching.That is a very good point bud

01-03-03, 09:28 AM

seems most reptile restrictions are due to skin trade, the argentine boa Bco is CITES 1 protected because of the skin trade.

KaHane · 01-03-03, 10:22 AM

For common animals, C.B all the way. Although we have to get W.C and ranched animals which are rare or need new bloodlines. Most of our Monitors had to start as W.C. ( Whitehead, Cummingi, Green trees,... etc.) There's just no other choice. Just as long as you take the time to quarantine them properly and treat them as needed, everything should be fine. Also Jeff is right, ranching is good for the hobby.

Lisa · 01-03-03, 10:43 AM

I try to get CB when i can, but CH is a heck of alot better then WC. Some species have to start some where.

eyespy · 01-03-03, 02:15 PM

Ranching might be good for the hobby when properly done, but unfortunately it often isn't.

Herps ain't herd animals. They don't tend to do well when overcrowded, and disease levels skyrocket. It isn't just parasites found in some ranches, there are deadly funguses and adenoviruses introduced to the US from one ranch in El Salvador that have infected a few thousand animals.

Some breeders of bearded dragons lost their entire stock in 2002 because they were trying to expand their bloodlines and brought home one of these ranched animals. Little did they know adenovirus is airborne and just caging separately is not an effective quarantine. My friends CheriS and Axe have been tracking infected animals on their website www.reptilerooms.com and the mortality rate is very high.

The day I read that a stampede of beardies ran through the streets of Adelaide is the day I will agree that ranching is a good way to produce bearded dragons. Now the scuttlebutt is that adenovirus is also being seen in mass-produced cornsnakes as well. Some of the vets I've spoken to feel that overcrowding and subsequent stress is weakening the immune systems of these animals so that they are more likely to be infected and this is why adenovirus is found in ranched animals but seldom in animals produced by breeders.

marisa · 01-03-03, 02:28 PM

But even if you buy a "ranched" animal for whatever reason (or WC for that matter)......wouldn't you be able to protect your collection 100% by following proper and strict quarantine methods?? I mean if those beardie breeders had, and had kept the "dirty" ranched animals away from their collection (and by away I mean, seperate floor or building, surgical gloves, sterile hands etc) 100% (and for a FULL quarantine, not a month or two) then they could have avoided that problem while still enjoying the "benifits" they were originally looking for from a ranched animal. As much as its "airborne" it can't pass through floors, or seperate buildings. My collection is tiny, but important to me and my new pets (Wc, Or CB) all live on a seperate floor in a closed room. To me this is the least I can do to protect my collection.

marisa

marisa · 01-03-03, 02:36 PM

Post was supposed to sound more like a question *LOL* Won't strict menthods prevent this from happening?

marisa

paul_le_snake · 01-03-03, 03:55 PM

they say that ranching is ok because it does not take reptile from the wild. how can that possibly be sustainable for a number of years. the guy in indonesia has hatched over 7000 bloods in five or six years. thats 7000 bloods that will not be growing to maturity to sustain a balanced population.
jeff, u said that ranching was good for the hobby, well for the hobby yes it may seem that way. but what about the bigger picture? what about the whole balance of nature? animals will be extinct if this carries on.
in my humble opion, only registered breeders or zoological societies should be allowed to import wc or ranched. why do we need ranched bloods, aren't there enough of us breeding them? for ppl breeding them its a nightmare y will ppl pay cb prices when they can have a ranched import for alot less. ranched animals are still given the same care as a wc. they are still kept in terrible conditions, overcrowded, underfed alot of the time exposed to the elements.
ball pythons that r ranched are sometimes held for 2 months before there are enough hatchlings to fill the shipment number. kept in a huge bin of hundreds not fed or watered, lying next to dead animals. not a great start to life.
ball pythons are offered for sale at $1.50 ea..if u buy 1000. so ok say some wholesaler buys that 1000 they work into the selling price that anywhere between 40 - 60 % will either be dead on arrival or die on their premises. and still walk off with a nice fat profit.
y are boa constrictors still being imported???? is there that much of a shortage of baby boas? i guess it comes down to, u know what!!!, MONEY. if someone can import 500 savannah monitors lose a few on the way and make a profit. then woo hoo go for it.
back to the blood ranching. ok, so 7000 babies are produced from about 450 (average of 15 living young per female) what happens to the 450 breeding females? killed and skinned.
anyone know some iguana ranches "ranch" them? in alot of cases gravid females are cut open, have thier eggs removed, crudely stiched back up and released to be cut open next year, lol as if they'd make it a week with that cut in them.
cheers
paul
ps sorry to go on.

eyespy · 01-04-03, 01:46 AM

Quarantine is good for diseases transmitted via direct contact, such as a skin fungus, or the fecal-oral route, such as a parasite. For an airborne virus or fungus, it doesn't do much unless each animal stays in its own room and each room has either a HEPA air filter or its own ventilation system.

Adenovirus has been transmitted to animals in another room even when caretakers are strictly assigned to one room only and no supplies are shared. No amount of washing can scrub the virus out of the air.