Peer review forum

SCReptiles · 12-04-04, 11:37 PM

I think ssnakess has grown to the point where it could now support a legitimate peer review forum. I can’t speak for all forums, but as far as the venomous forum, we now have several members (Ray Hunter, Ray G, TT, Dr Fry, etc) that are internationally recognized and respected in their field.

For anyone who may not be familiar with peer review, a researcher publishes a research paper in peer review journals or peer review web sites. Peers in that field can then critique the research, make inquires, or make rebuttals. It is through these means research becomes widely accepted or rejected in the scientific community.

With Internet forums being notorious for arguments and baseless opinions, a peer review forum would have to be tightly moderated to maintain scientific credibility. For example, a few months ago I posted some research on the size of giant pythons. I quoted scientifically accepted records and my research was rejected by a peer on the basis of, he would have lied if he killed a big snake, so therefor the people who killed that snake in the record book must have lied to. Babble such as this would have to be filtered and all questions and rebuttals would have to be factually based and germane to the research on hand. Perhaps the option of review before post could be used.

I am interested to know what the owners of ssnakess think about putting forth a option that could advance the hobby. Also want the opinions of other ssnakess members. Would you like to see this site offer a platform for scientific research?

Matt_K · 12-05-04, 12:25 AM

Although I think the idea is a good one and is something that the Moderators have thrown around a couple of times as something we'd like to try out, I just don't see it happening.. There are too many other things that we have to get accomplished on the site right now and unfortunatly, adding a new forum just isn't one of them... It still never hurts to get people's thought's on such ideas though..

-Matt

Jayson · 12-05-04, 08:30 AM

It sure would make it easier to weed through all af the misinformation and persoanal opinions and get to actual facts.
Sounds like a great idea to me!

marisa · 12-05-04, 11:45 AM

Well when you call others opinions "Babble such as this" as you so often seem to feel, regardless of who they came from, if they are right or not, etc, then you yourself would also need a high moderation level.

I agree with Matt. Some people hardly follow the rules on the forums we have, let alone another one with more rules.

Marisa

joey · 12-05-04, 11:56 AM

...what's wrong with "personal opinions?"

mykee · 12-05-04, 01:29 PM

Yeah, facts are much too black and white. If this site were all about facts, it would be boring as all hell. I wouldn't visit. It's the personal opinions and characters on this forum that make it what it is. You want just the facts, go buy Encyclopedia Britannica. I'd sooner hear people's opinions.

katev17 · 12-05-04, 01:34 PM

Joey - I don't think it's so much a problem of "personal opinions" as it is that when people are looking for research or reports or whatever, that facts are more important than opinions. Through sourcing and such, facts are 100% more reliable than opinions, as opinions way more than often incorporate infinite levels of bias. So basically, I don't think anyone's saying there's anything wrong with personal opinion, except in the case of research that should be based solely on facts, etc... (I'm not including theorizing in this, cuz hypotheses and theories are based on observed and researched facts! =))

Anyway, Yea, I think the forum is a good IDEA, but I think that the level of moderation would really be too much ... And even then, the moderators would have to continually be doing their own research too, in order to be able to filter out what could be considered "incorrect" (for lack of a better word) replies... I think that would create too many problems in itself... because all subsequent posts would be subject to the moderators' viewpoint... and who's to say who's more qualified than others? I guess I see it turning into abit of a mess. But I still think the concept would be really interesting.

=)
Kate

katev17 · 12-05-04, 01:36 PM

PS - It's just one forum he was proposing, not the whole site! =P I don't see what's wrong with having one forum dedicated to facts... ??? You wouldn't lose ANY characters or opinions, I can assure you that =P

But I still don't think it'd work... I'm just confused as to why one forum of 'facts' would really make that much of a difference on the entire make-up of the site??

Linds · 12-05-04, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayson
It sure would make it easier to weed through all af the misinformation and persoanal opinions and get to actual facts.

Quote:

Originally posted by katev17
PS - It's just one forum he was proposing, not the whole site! =P I don't see what's wrong with having one forum dedicated to facts... ???

I agree that a single forum based soley on factual/scientific information would be a good idea. We wouldn't lose the rest of the site and the multitude of opinions on it. It would be more of a research-based forum, just a 'specialty' forum. However it really isn't at all feasible at this time. As Matt already stated, there are already a lot of necessary things to be done to this site (which due to circumstance, already aren't able to be accomplished), to worry about adding anything else to the list.

SCReptiles · 12-05-04, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Well when you call others opinions "Babble such as this" as you so often seem to feel, regardless of who they came from, if they are right or not, etc, then you yourself would also need a high moderation level.

I only refer to others opinions as babble when they are completely fact less or not germane to the point. Peer opinions would be welcome in the forum that I envision, they would just need to be factually based. For instance the example I gave, should the other guy post “I reject the measurement because………”and he states a fact, that is what peer review calls for, but saying “I reject the measurement because I would lie if it were me that measured it” is babble. It has no factual basis. As for being boring, yes, I agree that if you are looking to be entertained, the peer review forum would not be for you. But if you are looking for factual research, then it would be much more beneficial then anything currently offered.

adamofsound · 12-05-04, 03:47 PM

I dont think this is the place for intellectual property to be posted for all to see. there is already enough trouble with academic miscoduct in Universities where this sort of thing is closely regulated and there are severe consequences for plagiarism in all its forms. There is more to plagiarism than copying directly from someone elses work. I think it would be very hard to convince anyone familiar with the academic process and the presentation of new information to post results on a site for hobbyists.
I see plagiarism here frequently (although I am sure it is not intentional), and I think it would be quite difficult to locate moderators qualified to do the kind of screening we would need to establish credibility as a benign and objective place to discuss research.
we should keep this site a grassroots effort of hobbyists helping hobbyists. If a new herper decides to ask a question, and in return gets a correct answer free of criticism, that in itself is advancing hobby, becasue that person will feel comfortable asking another question, thereby inproving the quality of life of the herps in their care.

but that is just my personal opinion,

Adam

BoidKeeper · 12-05-04, 04:34 PM

Quote:

I just don't see it happening..

Why not?

Quote:

There are too many other things that we have to get accomplished on the site right now and unfortunatly, adding a new forum just isn't one of them...

Like what?
Cheers,
Trevor

Matt_K · 12-05-04, 04:42 PM

Trevor, You were a MOD, you were also the MOD who mentioned this type of forum and you KNOW why we decided against it.. You also know some of the other issue's that need to be ironed out before we can add another forum to the site... So why try and bring it up in public?????

-Matt

SCReptiles · 12-05-04, 04:50 PM

Adam, no one will be posted cures for cancer for peer review here, but wouldn’t you like a forum where you could post conclusions you have drawn on research and have those conclusions discussed by peers based only on known fact and other research rather then “I think you are wrong, just cause I think you are wrong?” What you say about asking questions and getting correct answers sounds good, but that is not what you are getting in practice. Simply go to the giant python forum and ask about getting a burm. Watch how many replies you get from other hobbyist using “20 foot snake.” Anyone who has been in this for a while or has done true research knows that most of the CB burms of today are not breaking 14 feet, many will not even break 12, but yet 20 foot averages will be discussed as fact. Wouldn’t it be nice to have one forum where rebuttals to your research would have to state the facts they base their opinions on? The rest of the forum would remain as it. Hell, I like it the way it is, I have posted like 1400 times…I would just like a venue here that would allow actual researchers to have discourse among themselves, safe from the highly opinionated yet low factual research posters who follow threads posting pure babble.

BoidKeeper · 12-05-04, 04:52 PM

I haven't been a mod for almost two months, things change. The type of forum I had in mind was not like this at all. What I thought would be a good idea would be to have an ask the expert forum. Not that there are very many left around these days. Maybe if they had been given a forum to answer questions with out having to deffend themselves against attacks from newbies we'd still have more of them around.
What's wrong with bringing things up that the admin/mod team is trying to accomplish when it is the members that will be affected by these accomplishments? I think it's only right that the members know what the team is trying to accomplish for them. After all the site is here for the members and not the other way arround. Maybe they might be able to offer some of their thoughts on the things being thought of.
Cheers,
Trevor