Please help! desorientated imperator

Ivan (NL) · 08-17-04, 03:24 PM

Call my vet first thing in the morning but also like some of your opinions...

Came just home, wanted to fed my smallest imperator en noticed someting shocking. Took her out her cage halfway her tail when she started circling with her head. Making circels en going upside down making strange moves totally out of control.

Know some dont like it, but i got my female's together but now i'm in a panic!

Took her directly out and in another smaller cage seperate. In the cage she seems fine but took her out another time en when i make a little move holding her at the end, she starts again making deoriented moves like there's something extremely wrong in her head??

The other female's seem to be fine don't make strange moves.

Had the strange one in quarantaine for 6 months, my vet checked her out en seemed to be fine. Put her 3 months ago with the other ones en no problem at all. Took her out two weeks ago, nothing wrong, tried to feed her a small rabbit wich she didn't take (first one). Tried last week a rat, she also refuses but also nothing seemed to be strange. Today she also refuses offcourse and seemed to be sick in the head.

Read from Melissa Kaplan about IBD and tried to put her on the back. No problem at all and in this little cage noting seems wrong...

Anyone some idea??

Liked to know what could have gone wrong with this snake in such a small time?

Off course I call my vet tomorow but keeps on going through my mind and makes me verry verry sad

Ivan (NL) · 08-17-04, 04:30 PM

I've been watching the boa for almost an hour. The symptoms are the following: when she comes up with her head she falls backwards. Not all of the time but i guess 8 out of 10 times.

She feels strong, is in perfect condition, has a clean mouth. In my opinion nothing wrong with at all exept her head falling backwards

jmkhets · 08-17-04, 04:46 PM

IBD?

jmkhets · 08-17-04, 04:47 PM

SOUNDS LIKE IT...SORRY

Ivan (NL) · 08-17-04, 05:08 PM

I read this article:

http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html

Can lay the boa on its back but she is in a few seconds in normal position.

My question: can IBD goes so fast?? A week ago nathing was wrong...

Another question: what to do?

What to do with the other 5 girls??

Are they certainly infected, is there a way to find out??

etc etc

Please... can use a little help...

Linds · 08-17-04, 05:42 PM

Firstly, this is a prime example of why it is best to house snakes seperately.

IBD is very rare, and many other more common problems can have similar symptoms. I'm not inclined to believe it is due to something toxic in the environment, as the other ones would likely be affected in the same way, but that can cause neurological problems. As can certain parasitic or bacterial infections. How small is she compared to the other snakes? Is it possible she was injured? I would recommend quarantining all of the girls [individually] until the problem is isolated. Good luck and keep us updated.

Ivan (NL) · 08-17-04, 06:40 PM

I know it's better to seperate them but build an enormous cage at the time for all of them and found out later. Off course this is the worst thing of housing snake's together, one getting ill.

Linds:

IBD is to me a difficult word and a vague illness. The big question for me at this time is: can such a thing (IBD) cause these symptoms (falling backwards with the head) within a couple of days???

She is the smallest one with 4,5 feet and verry thin, the biggest one is 7 feet and verry massive. I've got plateau's of wood they can lay on en climb through so it could be she got hurt crusched by her big girlfriend?? Hurt her neck?

I have no idea what to think of about other more common problems can have similar symptoms??

Could you give me a couple of examples of what could be wrong?

What happened to my snake, because it's a fine animal and i've always been pretty sure of her...

The only way I can describe the symptoms is:

Laying down nothing is wrong, by handling when she's comming up with her head she falls backwards making an unnatural circkel with her head.

Please, all information is welcome

BoidKeeper · 08-17-04, 08:59 PM

You could seperate them, or you could lose them both.
Do you have mites? If so they will all have it if one does.
For more infor on IBD run a search or get the boa constrictor manual. Have they been exposed to any chemicals? I knew a guy that lost a burm because he did not follow my instructions on how to use vapona and just placed a chunk of it in a cage inside a plastic bag. Before the burm died he acted like he had IBD. He also had mites so at first I thought it was IBD because he was also housing the burm with two BCI but it came on fast and killed fast and there were now signs before the vapona was placed in the cage.
Trevor

Jeff_Favelle · 08-17-04, 11:34 PM

Isn't there a rule here about linking Kaplan's caresheets? LOL! Well there should be.

J/K

Ivan (NL) · 08-18-04, 02:25 AM

Boidkeeper:

I have no mites and seperated the animals yesterday.

Also nothing with chemicals.

edit: also never had mite the last two years and never used vapona!

BoidKeeper · 08-18-04, 08:24 AM

No mites is a good thing because that is the fastest way it is tranmitted. IBD is the HIV/Aids of the snake world. A snake can have it and pass it on for two years before you ever see any syptoms of it. So just because they are seperate now, if it is IBD you may see it appear with in the next two years. If this snake dies and you find out it did die from IBD you have an ethical duty not to sell those any other animals for at least two years to avoid spreading it to others.
As far as I know, and this may have changed, IBD can only be tested for post moderm. If I were you I would be looking for places to have it tested and how they want the snake kept after death.
Like I said there is a chapter on IBD in the Boa Constrictor Manual as well as a section on other boa disorders that often look like IBD but aren't. One such disorder that can look like IBD is bacterial meningitis.
Cheers,
Trevor

Ivan (NL) · 08-19-04, 10:01 AM

I took the animal yesterday to my vet who gave her a injection. Must be result in 24 hours he said. My boagirl is worse than yesterday...

BoidKeeper:

What could I do with the rest?

Is there anything I can do?

I have 6 females (5 in short time) and 2 males. The males are housed seperate from the females en seperated from eachother. Also I have a big Burmese python.

Fear the worst things for all my snakes. Is this the reality or am I taking it a bit to serious??

Is there something to do preventive?

What should my vet be looking for?

And how do I find out about the rest? I understand that the females are a big risk but the males in their cages at the other side of the room, are they also a big risk?

Linds · 08-19-04, 10:24 AM

What kind of tests did your vet perform? What kind of shot did he give your snake? What were his comments? The symptoms your snake are displaying can be a wide variety of illnesses, so your vet should be working on isolating the cause through bloodwork, tracheal cultures, and fecal floats and smears, in combination with visual inspection and a detailed description of the snakes husbandry.

We can't tell you what to do with the rest, other than quarantine them (both from your collection as well as eachother). Again, although it should never be ruled out, IBD is also rarely ever found in captive collections. Depending on the problem, and your practices, the males could also be at as much risk as the females were for contracting whatever the problem is.

Invictus · 08-19-04, 10:40 AM

Don't those symptoms also describe the neurological disorder known as "Stargazing"?

Invictus · 08-19-04, 10:45 AM

Never mind... I just did some reading and now I remmeber that stargazing is a symptom of IBD.